Guide to Ripping & Encoding High Quality MP3s

Originally Posted by Lousy

Hello Moguta,

is the LAME V2 better than LAME CBR 192? Many/Most files which i encoded with LAME V2 have an average bitrate of ~160; only few reach an average of 190+. So those 160-VBR's, are they indeed better than a potential CD-rip to 192-CBR?

192-CBR (=average is 192) is higher than ~160 (=average is 160). Isnt higher better? That's why i am asking..

Thanks, best, Lousy

Higher bitrates means that more information is being stored. However, whether a particular higher bitrate is "better" is not an easy question to answer.

The short answer is that the ~32Kbps difference between your -V2 --vbr-new and 192Kbps CBR encodes is very likely a combination of CBR inefficiencies and inaudible information.

The entire point of MP3 is to shrink file sizes. VBR attempts to be as efficient about that goal as possible, by determining what bitrates are necessary for each file to encode them with a certain -V quality. More complex audio requires fewer bits, and less complex audio really doesn't need high bitrates (Note: Though true, that explanation is an extreme simplification). CBR, in contrast, just throws however many bits at a file that you tell it, without regard to how many it actually needs to sound the same as the original. It could be too little, or -- as it seems in your example above -- too much.

By the way, I would stick with -V2. It is a time- and test-proven quality setting. The VBR quality #s above that (-V1 and -V0) will likely begin to store more inaudible, unnecessary information, eroding the VBR's efficiency. Some people do prefer the "overhead", however, feeling safer even if there is no audible difference.

Wow, great explanations. I'm enlightened. Thanks for the splendid replies!
Ah, me too i have a foobar related question... Does a plugin (component) exist for converting to Windows Media Audio (*.wma) instead of to LAME V2 (*.mp3)?
Some of my sets and rips are in *.wma, so i would want to convert the inet ape/flac's to wma ... just for the sake of homogenity of file extensions *g*
i googled. and i think that foobar2000 doesnt support the conversion TO wma.

You don't want to convert to WMA, trust me...

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question, but I've recently ripped some game music into .AUS format. How can I convert .AUS files into WAV or MP3 files? Thanks!

Originally Posted by Lousy

Wow, great explanations. I'm enlightened. Thanks for the splendid replies!
Ah, me too i have a foobar related question... Does a plugin (component) exist for converting to Windows Media Audio (*.wma) instead of to LAME V2 (*.mp3)?
Some of my sets and rips are in *.wma, so i would want to convert the inet ape/flac's to wma ... just for the sake of homogenity of file extensions *g*
i googled. and i think that foobar2000 doesnt support the conversion TO wma.

Thanks. I could even go more in-depth, but I figured I'd spare you the long-winded explanation. ;p

And although I would recommend encoding to LAME MP3 rather than WMA, I did find a guide to do exactly what you ask:
How to set up Converter for WMA 9 - Hydrogenaudio Forums

Originally Posted by Rew

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question, but I've recently ripped some game music into .AUS format. How can I convert .AUS files into WAV or MP3 files? Thanks!

I'm sorry, but I don't know what .AUS files are and couldn't find it in a quick Google.

Originally Posted by Moguta

I did find a guide to do exactly what you ask

that's exactly what i was searching for (even on that forum) but never detected in the WWW. you got the better nose and eyes Thanks for your kind help. I've saved that page to HDD, downloaded the specific encoder, and will follow the instructions (test at home). Excellent resource. both hydrogenaudio, and you nice guys

THANKS!!

Gawd, I'm about to pull my f***ing hair out right now.

Does anyone know of a good alternative to Audacity? I'm ripping files from a couple games, and most of them convert from WAV to MP3 just fine in Audacity. But there are these weird few that absolutely won't compute in Audacity, for no reason at all. I tried changing disk writers in Winamp, but with the exact same result. So the problem is with Audacity. Anyone know of any good substitutes? (I'm using Audacity to convert these WAV files to MP3 as well as to give them a 5-second fade-out at the end.)

I use Exact Audio Copy to convert WAVs ripped directly from CDs into mp3 but I use dBpowerAMP for anything else. The latter program requires a crack for you to use it as long as you want, though, so you might want to look for it on a torrent site.

Originally Posted by Lousy

that's exactly what i was searching for (even on that forum) but never detected in the WWW. you got the better nose and eyes Thanks for your kind help. I've saved that page to HDD, downloaded the specific encoder, and will follow the instructions (test at home). Excellent resource. both hydrogenaudio, and you nice guys

THANKS!!

Just to let you know, i did that conversion (lossless ape -> 128kbps WMA) following the options given at that hydrogenaudio page, and i am very pleased with the resulting files. I really have the impression that WMA's at low bitrates are superior in (subjective) sound impression than MP3's (FhG) at the same CBR-bitrate.

LAME V2 is as good of course, since it is VBR, and some files are as small as the low-bitrate-but-great-sounding WMA-CBR's. It all depends on the lossless source audio material --- i guess.

Originally Posted by Basil

I use Exact Audio Copy to convert WAVs ripped directly from CDs into mp3 but I use dBpowerAMP for anything else. The latter program requires a crack for you to use it as long as you want, though, so you might want to look for it on a torrent site.

Which torrent site do you recommend? (I tried hunting around, but when I found a torrent site that required membership on a porno site, I pretty much figured I'm going to need some help on finding a more suitable alternative!)

EDIT: Ack!! Okay, I found a copy of dBpowerAMP that I could download--but it doesn't work right. When it asks for files to convert, and I go to the folder with my WAV files I want to convert...nothing comes up. It can't bring up WAV files! What gives? How do I make it bring up and convert WAV files?

Basically, I need a program that functions exactly like Audacity. =(

Originally Posted by Rew

EDIT: Ack!! Okay, I found a copy of dBpowerAMP that I could download--but it doesn't work right. When it asks for files to convert, and I go to the folder with my WAV files I want to convert...nothing comes up. It can't bring up WAV files! What gives? How do I make it bring up and convert WAV files?

Basically, I need a program that functions exactly like Audacity. =(

Not sure what the problem is there. You tried setting the 'Files of type' drop-down box to All Audio Files?

Chances are you might have a fake version of the program, though. I'll upload mine for you:

Download links - Sharebee.com, the one and only online file hosting distribution service.

Basil, Audacity is not solely a converter, but is mainly an audio waveform editor. Rew seems to need the ability to fade his recordings as well as encode them.

Rew, perhaps you can try the trial versions of Sound Forge or Cool Edit. Although, I can't remember, one of their trial limitations might be that you can't save your work...

Also, do you notice any difference about the files that Audacity won't open? Is it audio from entire games that won't open, or will only some tracks in the same game not work? Do they have unusual sample rates? And can you play the problematic WAVs fine in your audio player?

Thanks, everyone! Actually, I figured out a different sort of trick. The WAV files that would go nowhere in Audacity I opened in iTunes instead and converted them to MP3. Their sound quality remained intact, and this time, as MP3 files, I was able to play them in Audacity and do the five-second fadeouts that I wanted. So all that to say, problem solved!

Moguta: What was weird is that I couldn't find any commonality at all among the WAV files that Audacity wouldn't take. Tracks from literally the same folder of a game would convert splendidly, while a stubborn few just wouldn't at all, and no error messages were given either. Oh well. At least that's over with now. =0)

Originally Posted by Lousy

Just to let you know, i did that conversion (lossless ape -> 128kbps WMA) following the options given at that hydrogenaudio page, and i am very pleased with the resulting files. I really have the impression that WMA's at low bitrates are superior in (subjective) sound impression than MP3's (FhG) at the same CBR-bitrate.

LAME V2 is as good of course, since it is VBR, and some files are as small as the low-bitrate-but-great-sounding WMA-CBR's. It all depends on the lossless source audio material --- i guess.

Modern audio encoder implementations do seem pretty competitive around 128Kbps, as demonstrated by the results of this public ~128Kbps double-blind listening test in December 2005:



Although, this test isn't entirely relevant to your statement, since it used WMA Pro in VBR mode rather than CBR WMA. It's just too bad there have been no public double-blind listening tests performed with LAME's -V2 --vbr-new or --alt-preset standard modes. (In the above test, LAME is evaluted by its lower-quality -V5 --vbr-new setting.) I have heard that its simply too fatiguing for most people to try to reliably & repeatably discern between that level of quality and the original.

Additional Post:

Originally Posted by Rew

Thanks, everyone! Actually, I figured out a different sort of trick. The WAV files that would go nowhere in Audacity I opened in iTunes instead and converted them to MP3. Their sound quality remained intact, and this time, as MP3 files, I was able to play them in Audacity and do the five-second fadeouts that I wanted. So all that to say, problem solved!

Moguta: What was weird is that I couldn't find any commonality at all among the WAV files that Audacity wouldn't take. Tracks from literally the same folder of a game would convert splendidly, while a stubborn few just wouldn't at all, and no error messages were given either. Oh well. At least that's over with now. =0)

That is strange, about Audacity not opening files randomly. Perhaps you could report it to the devs and see what they make of it, for the future.

And in case you didn't realize, when you open the MP3 in Audacity and then re-save it after doing the fade-out, you are actually re-encoding the MP3. (WAV -> lossy MP3 -> lossier MP3 w/fade)

To preserve audio quality, you could try:
1. Download Foobar2000 and do a full install... or at least make sure that you install the Converter component.
1b. Download & extract the current FLAC and LAME encoders (links in the 1st post of this thread)
2. Add the desired WAVs to Foobar's playlist, then select them all and choose Convert > Convert to... from the right-click menu.
3. Select FLAC, level 5 from the drop-down box, hit OK, and wait for it to complete. The first time you convert, it will also ask for the location of the FLAC encoder you just downloaded.
4. Import the FLAC files into Audacity, then delete the FLACs once you have encoded to MP3. Alternately, since Audacity only encodes in outdated CBR mode, you could have Audacity export the faded audio to WAV and use Foobar2000 to convert them into efficient, high quality VBR MP3s. Just add the WAVs and proceed like you converted to FLAC, but instead selecting MP3 (LAME), 190 kbps, V2, fast in Foobar's converter.

EDIT: Oooops, I forgot that Foobar's converter doesn't include the encoders themselves! Updated it to work.

Wow Moguta, that was interesting.. Thanks!

[...]

I'm still trying to encode (=rip from FLAC *images*) MP3's (LAME V2 v3.97) with foobar2000. I guess i must delete the downloaded FLAC-image if the accompanying CUE-image sheet is pretty much wrecked, am I right?

Well, I dont know much about correctly working CUE-sheets, but I do know that CUE-sheets (produced by ExactAudioCopy rips) sometimes need minor editing, e.g. the .WAV" WAVE needs to be edited to .APE" WAVE for APE-images, or CDImage.wav" WAVE needs to be edited to CDImage.flac" WAVE for FLAC-images.

But let's assume that the CUE-sheet is absolutely not working -- i dunno why -- (inside the CUE-file, the single tracks are labelled as APE's...for my huge FLAC-image); question/FLAC-images: Is there any good way to extract the single tracks WITHOUT ANY EXISTING/VALID/WORKING cue-sheet?

(If the image file were in *.NRG-image format, i would mount the image with Daemon-tools (virtual CD drive) and then rip the single tracks with foobar2000, Nero, etc.)

Thanks for hope or help!!

ADDIT: i'll be happy to post a sample §$%&! cue-sheet. i deleted most non-working downloaded flac/cue-pairs, but...

Originally Posted by Lousy

I'm still trying to encode (=rip from FLAC *images*) MP3's (LAME V2 v3.97) with foobar2000. I guess i must delete the downloaded FLAC-image if the accompanying CUE-image sheet is pretty much wrecked, am I right?

Why don't you post the cuesheet here and the file layout?

Originally Posted by Lousy

Well, I dont know much about correctly working CUE-sheets, but I do know that CUE-sheets (produced by ExactAudioCopy rips) sometimes need minor editing, e.g. the .WAV" WAVE needs to be edited to .APE" WAVE for APE-images, or CDImage.wav" WAVE needs to be edited to CDImage.flac" WAVE for FLAC-images.

I hope you also know WHY you have to do this.

Originally Posted by Lousy

But let's assume that the CUE-sheet is absolutely not working -- i dunno why -- (inside the CUE-file, the single tracks are labelled as APE's...for my huge FLAC-image); question/FLAC-images: Is there any good way to extract the single tracks WITHOUT ANY EXISTING/VALID/WORKING cue-sheet?

Post cuesheet and file layout. Otherwise nobody can help you.

Originally Posted by Lousy

(If the image file were in *.NRG-image format, i would mount the image with Daemon-tools (virtual CD drive) and then rip the single tracks with foobar2000, Nero, etc.)

Thanks for hope or help!!

NRG is an image format already with the cuesheet embedded. If you want you can also modify it, but it's harder because it's not in clear text like the "normal" .CUE-sheet.
Burning a disc without a cuesheet is not possible, some firmware also verifies the sheet (older burners did this and so had problems when cloning copy-protected discs).