[Attention] Best Arranged/Doujin Contest: Pre-Discussion

Originally Posted by Liontamer

Heh. If it's November 1st, that's gonne be tough. Hard to figure out what to choose out of so many tracks. Thems the breaks though.

Not neccessarily the breaks yet--if you have a better date in mind, just say so! Also, that would just be the beginning of the nominations period, so there'd be weeks to finalize things.

Originally Posted by Cyrus

What about medleys? I do not intend to nominate the S.S.H. behemoth "Summer Vacation Game Music Festival" (approx 50 minutes, 37 tunes), but there are some nice arrangements that include at least two tunes. Ineligible or still ok?

I can't imagine why it wouldn't be! Medleys have long been an essential part of SotW, and a cherished way of sneaking multiple tunes into a single nomination slot

As I understand it, the nomination process is going to copy/paste from SAUS, right? So why fuss about a deadline? The deadline would be until the slots are filled first come first serve.

Nope, it's SAUS but with a revision that Goldfish suggested.

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

I think the fair thing to do is:

A: Have everyone nominate 10.
B: At the end of the period, take in as many as possible up to the cap.

So for example:

30 people * 10 tracks = 300 tracks

Everyone's #1-#8 gets in (30 * 8 = 240), then the first sixteen people who posted nominations get their #9 picks in, giving 256. Probably wouldn't take more than an hour to get into a spreadsheet.

So it's SAUS minus the "first come, first serve" thing. More like, "everyone who puts shit up gets equal consideration until we get to the cap...but the sooner you do it, the better, since nominating earlier might give you an extra nomination." The worst thing that can happen is fewer than 26 people nominate and everyone needs to add more nominations. Or 130 people nominate and only everyone's #1 and #2 get in. Or 256 people nominate and only everyone's #1 get in. But hey, that's why you list in order of preference!

So with this, we'd still have an ending date for noms.

I see. So, say somebody nominates before I have and puts my intended #1 in their #10 spot. I'm I still free to duplicate to ensure it gets in? And if duplication was allowed under this circumstance, would the nomination benefit at all from being mentioned twice? Not from a seed number, but let me illustrate.

40 people nominated 10 tracks each when the deadline fell. Everyone gets their 1 - 6s in. 240 tracks leaving room for 16 more. So, the first 16 people would have their #7s included as well. I nominated later than the first 16. My #7 nomination isn't included. But someone else also nominated the same track in a non placing spot. Would getting your post in place first be put in front of two people wanting to see a song get in over a single vote in a different song's favor? If so, how many would it take? Three? Five?

It's likely that the issue wouldn't be stumbled over at all, but, although a points system's been removed, there are still numbers and preference at play, so duplication has to be thought of, and I believe given value. If we would have used this during BSC, Labyrinth Fight wouldn't have entered the contest, I don't believe. It turned out to be one of the highest seeds and went very deep in.

edit: Also, it seems that placeholder posts don't seem very fair at all, do they? How are we going to deal with people who post 1 - 4 and then question marks for the rest until later, or people who entirely revise their list right before deadline but posted their original minutes after the nomination thread was made? Do we sort the list by not only the original posting date, but the last to be edited as well?

Originally Posted by Drakken

Open the MIDI in Winamp. Go to Winamp's Options menu, then under Plugins, look for Output. Change it from whatever it's on (probably Nullsoft DirectSound Output) to Nullsoft Disk Writer. Click on Configure (or just double-click Disk Writer) and set what directory you want to write the .wav to. Then, you can play the .midi and it will write it as a .wav file. You can then convert the .wav to an .mp3 using your conversion program of choice (preferably RazorLame).

At least, that's how I would do it. niki might have a better way (though this way is quick and easy).

I think there's another thing to look out for. I just found out that you need to configure the midi plug-in settings as well (Winamp preferences -> Plug-ins -> Input -> Nullsoft MIDI player [in_midi.dll]). For me, once I was at the midi plug-in configuration menu, I picked my device to be "DirectMusic / Microsoft Synthesizer (with ouput)". Because I'd previously chosen other input devices without an output function, I wasn't able to record my midis as wav files.

This might not be very useful this late into the discussion but here are some quick thoughts on the doujin contest.

Allowing official arranges would defintiely increase the ability of members to come up with a list and thus participate. However, one might run into a situation of official arranges crowding out doujin nominations.

I can see how doing away with a point system for selecting the top nominations avoids the time consuming process of tabulation but I think it addresses some of the issues the Dr mentioned about duplicative nominations and whether they should be given merit.

I'm not quite sure if there is a nomination system that addressesw all issues and considerations at hand, but I do think a point-based PM nomination system (with edits possible) could avoid issues of boosting songs after review of other nominations and subsequent edits. Of course, this is resource intensive and amounts to a considerable amount of pain for the organiser. I know of at least one radio song contest that uses an undisclosed nomination system (I think through phone calls or SMS) to determine the most popular songs of the year or something. And I think each voter could only vote once per song. There are a few problems, however, with a PM-styled nomination system.

But since all's been decided, I guess not much point delving further into it.

Originally Posted by Dr. Uzuki

40 people nominated 10 tracks each when the deadline fell. Everyone gets their 1 - 6s in. 240 tracks leaving room for 16 more. So, the first 16 people would have their #7s included as well. I nominated later than the first 16. My #7 nomination isn't included. But someone else also nominated the same track in a non placing spot. Would getting your post in place first be put in front of two people wanting to see a song get in over a single vote in a different song's favor? If so, how many would it take? Three? Five?

That's an interesting issue. Under the modified SAUS system as I understand it, there would be no consideration for repeated nominations. So if no #7's got in, it wouldn't matter if ten people had put up the same #7--the song wouldn't get in. So there'd be no incentive to duplicate nominations unless you saw someone's #10 that you wanted to ensure entered the contest, and made that one of your top nominations (at which point they might as well pick a new #10).

If this strikes anyone as particularly unfair, we could revise it (though I can't imagine how at the moment).

Originally Posted by Dr. Uzuki

Also, it seems that placeholder posts don't seem very fair at all, do they? How are we going to deal with people who post 1 - 4 and then question marks for the rest until later, or people who entirely revise their list right before deadline but posted their original minutes after the nomination thread was made? Do we sort the list by not only the original posting date, but the last to be edited as well?

Another interesting issue; as I understand the system placeholders would be open to the abuse you describe. I don't think it's all that likely, but again if you're concerned we could tinker with the system (perhaps by requiring people to post full slates of ten when they nominate?).

Originally Posted by Elorin

But since all's been decided, I guess not much point delving further into it.

There's still time to revise the system, but PM-only strikes me as being contrary to the nature of the beast. Noms have always been open at GFF, and it's inspired a lot of interesting discussion, horse-trading, and criticism.

Yup, I agree. I think the open nomination phase has traditionally been a means to build anticipation for the actual contest; a prelude you might say. It can also be interesting to read about discussion and comments members make about their nominations or nominations made by others. This has always been an issue with PM nominations, I think.

I do see how a PM system could weed out some nagging problems such as last minute edits to push a song into Round 1. However, if the new nomination system recognises only unique nominations and disregards duplicative nominations, then duplications and their associated issues would not be an issue, I believe. I guess which method is adopted might also depend in part on the objective of the contest, e.g. do you want to encourage uinique nominations to potentially increase the diversity of nominations made?

Originally Posted by Elorin

I guess which method is adopted might also depend in part on the objective of the contest, e.g. do you want to encourage uinique nominations to potentially increase the diversity of nominations made?

Admittedly, a big feature of modified SAUS is that it's easier on the people who have to tabulate the votes

I'd say that if you don't want to risk a song not making it, put it higher up on your list. Of course, you could always wait till the nomination period is almost over, take a look at how many nominations have been made, and adjust your list accordingly.

And as for the PM suggestion, I agree that it's better to make the nominations open. This allow for comments like, "You nominated that?! You've got to be kidding me," "[Insert quoted song title here] is the best song ever; nice choice!," and all sorts of similar good fun.

I'd say the first person to nominate something gets it. People after them have to pick something else, unless they arrange to have the nomination pass over to the newer person. At which point, it gets kind of silly because the debate is over who gets credit for nominating the song. If someone wants credit for nominating "Bloody Hell" instead of me, be my guest and send me a PM and/or just stick it on a later list...I can pick something else, no problem. I'm having enough issues deciding what to put in as it is.

Though Doc has a point if the new person nominates in a lower spot...That's an interesting dilemma. I'm open for ideas there.

I don't really care for PM systems to be honest. However, I am highly against "placeholder" posts. I'd say make your post with at least 3 nominations and if not, it should be deleted (though you can repost later, but in a later spot).

If you guys need a host, I volunteer my condign.org webspace. It could use some action.

Originally Posted by SCHWARZE-2

If you guys need a host, I volunteer my condign.org webspace. It could use some action.

Terrific, thanks! That's one big hurdle out of the way, then

Originally Posted by SCHWARZE-2

If you guys need a host, I volunteer my condign.org webspace. It could use some action.

Just as long as you don't push through another b.s. Ace Combat song.

I kid, I kid.

That wasn't my fault, I swear!

;_;

Few questions...

Are nominations open? If so where do I nominate?

Also I have a few songs in mind, but I personally have no idea who the artists are. Can I still nominate these tracks? I know what games they are from though, if that counts...

Do I just upload the song through Sendspace or something?

Originally Posted by boble

Are nominations open? If so where do I nominate?

Not yet; I was originally planning on starting a thread yesterday, but people said they weren't ready yet. Maybe sometime next week.

Originally Posted by boble

Also I have a few songs in mind, but I personally have no idea who the artists are. Can I still nominate these tracks? I know what games they are from though, if that counts...

As long as they're actually doujin, it shouldn't matter. With all the fan-made works floating around, there's bound to be some poorly-documented stuff.

Originally Posted by boble

Do I just upload the song through Sendspace or something?

Yeah, when you nominate. I'd recommend an uploader that keeps the links alive for longer, though.

Originally Posted by boble

Also I have a few songs in mind, but I personally have no idea who the artists are. Can I still nominate these tracks?

I'd be against that, personally ... =/