[Attention] Best Song Contest 2008 Planning Thread

I'm more concerned with the vast number of repeats of last year, just at a glance I saw like ten or so that I vividly remember. If the point is to expose people to new music, it's silly unless you think nobody remembered that song from last year, and if the point is to win--they didn't make it last year, why would it be different this time? They didn't get any better with age I can assure you, and there are so many other awesome songs to choose from. I don't think I nominated anything that came out before 2007.

Er, I know how that sounds, but I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here, just saying that there are easily enough recent songs that are good enough for a nomination. Or at least tracks that haven't already featured on BSC...

I don't have a problem with the 5-10 noms being "useless"--use them to pump up other people's 5-10 noms.

Ciao.

Originally Posted by surasshu

I'm more concerned with the vast number of repeats of last year, just at a glance I saw like ten or so that I vividly remember. If the point is to expose people to new music, it's silly unless you think nobody remembered that song from last year, and if the point is to win--they didn't make it last year, why would it be different this time? They didn't get any better with age I can assure you, and there are so many other awesome songs to choose from. I don't think I nominated anything that came out before 2007.

Holy hell, yes, someone that speaks the truth.

I always thought the point of BSC wasn't for a song to win anything per se, but to experience new music like you've said. Granted, I haven't actually listened to much music made between 2007-2008 aside from Brawl but I want to try to pick music that hasn't been nominated in any previous BSCs before, or any related contests (hence why I've now scratched out Track 9 from The Smurfs). For me, It would be nice to see that everything nominated from previous BSCs be disqualified (not just the Top 16 from years before). I know, however, that it would take a bit of work to compare tracks on nomination lists this year to the nomination lists of previous contests (unless they were already made handy, which orion_mk3 posted links to back on Page 1 - all the nomination listings going back to 2004).

If such a rule were to be enforced, I'd be willing to do some, if not most of the work, but that's just a suggestion I'm throwing out there.

Cheers.

I agree that it's troubling to see old chestnuts in the mix, and I carefully screened my own nominations to make sure that they had either been released since BSC '07 or hadn't been nominated before. I think that sort of thing should be strongly encouraged.

But enforcing it seems like a pain and something of a killjoy. Even if we combined all the previous nominations into a single, easily searchable database (which, incidentally, is an excellent idea), people would have to be checked, double checked, and triple checked and notified via PM (in case they don't read this thread) of ineligible tracks.

I'm willing to give most people the benefit of the doubt--they may not have participated before, or may have simply forgotten what was nominated. Some of the tracks might legitimately deserve another shot, too. I'd say any rule change of that magnitude would have to wait until next time at the very least, to give the organizers time to streamline the process.

Ciao.

We have a guideline in the military on the 2-mile run that basically is this: "Walking during the run is authorized, but strongly discouraged."

You don't have to police people up regarding their nominations, but I think having a one stop link for finding what songs have been nominated in the past would help. The links you provided on the first page required me to do a shitload of digging when I was making my own list comparisons and I'm STILL not sure if I put any repeat songs from the past in. It took Darkcomet72 telling me "Hey, dude, Skullmonkeys was in 2006" before I removed it (harr, I'm an original *facepalm*).

I'd say the most you can do is have an easy to access resource to show what songs have been in the contest prior and just hope that a person has the gumption to compare their nominations to past ones.

Cheers.

Yeah, I understand that it's nothing we should deal with right now, it was just something that I really noticed as I was reading the nomination thread.

I also feel that the point of BSC is all about discovering new music, in which case re-nominations make absolutely no sense (unless, like I said before, the song went virtually unnoticed). But even if the point of this is to win the contest with your nomination, why nominate a previous loser? It doesn't make sense to me no matter how I look at it.

Anyway, (for next year maybe) I was thinking maybe instead of dismissing them altogether, they could get a point penalty. That way, if several people feel that it's a song so worthy that it should get another shot, they can push it up, but at least it will make people think twice about just shoveling in a bunch of old tracks that went the rounds before (maybe even multiple times). Maybe the penalty could even be determined based on what round it made... Just thinking out loud.

Also, if going through that list and finding the duplicates is a pain, I could probably do that. I'd feel kinda bad suggesting something that is a fuckload of work just because I think it's "more fun" to hear a bunch of new songs.

Ciao.

Originally Posted by Basil

I always thought the point of BSC wasn't for a song to win anything per se, but to experience new music like you've said.

Of course, we all know that's a bit idealistic and that every poll, no matter what kind, will turn into a popularity contest. And I honestly don't see a huge deal in that, since even old music is sometimes left unappreciated by the greater community (anyone remember how big Neorude II became a couple years back because of Final Battle?).

I do my best the nominate new and interesting things each year, but I also happen to like to bring back old, failed nominations that never made it past the first round. Evergrace's Buying Goods at Palmira, for example-- a decent few of us like hearing it and enjoy seeing it fall before its competition how it does each year.

Cheers.

Officially penalizing songs for being in past contests is going a bit far. Voters should have as much say as possible as to whether or not a song progresses. Can you imagine the mess there would be if somehow 2 songs tied and one had that point penalty? It's convoluted.

Ciao.

I found it fairly easy to check whether my tracks had been nominated before, all new tracks were presumed not to have been, then I just got up the lists of previous noms, used Ctrl + F and typed in the name of the track to see if it came up. A database would be a good idea but it sounds like a lot of work. In terms of compulsory removal of previous entrants I find it a little over-zealous for what is essentially a bit of fun, I just do it mainly to stop stagnation and also it is logical that if they didn't do well enough to retire last time then there is little chance they will this time.

Cheers.

Yeah, well, I didn't and you did... so what's your point? If you're going to encourage new entries, and you want to make people (who are inherently lazy) work to find out whether or not their music was in a previous contest, enjoy your repeat entries, then.

Ciao.

If memory serves, NYRSkate had a "bonus" for songs that had been released in the last year in one or two of the BSC's, making it more likely that recent songs (released since the last contest) would gain entry. I think something like that might work for next time, or perhaps as a tiebreaker.

I'm working on a spreadsheet of all the previous nominations right now, and hope to have it done soon. The only missing data is nos. 241-256 from 2005, which were decided by preliminary voting rather than nomination points. Does anyone happen to know which tunes those were, or have access to a bracket?

Cheers.

Going to chip in with Rotor in the "lol what" camp. There's a fine line between being innovative and improving the contest and just being ridiculous. First something about making the contest 9001 songs, and now penalizing people for old tracks?

You mean to tell me that if there's 10-20 repeats in a pool of 250 that you're going to have a fucking heart attack? Sometimes I wonder if you guys read what you type before you hit reply.

Also old adages about not fixing what isn't broken go here.

Ciao.

Oh! That would be very helpful Orion. I did a quick search, and I don't think any of my nominations have been used before. If they did, I still like them for what they are, but I'd rather have things that haven't lost before entered. Some of the ones I bumped for others (7-10) may be, so I look forward to that!

Cheers.

Unless someone can convince me that this (2004 list) contains fresh unique music out of games I've never heard of before, I am finding it difficult to believe that this event was primarily conceived with the intent of promoting new and obscure music.

New music should be highly encouraged, but I don't see the need for an actual change in rules to enforce it.

Also hell yeah BSC 08 I will win, the only event I will probably follow my word on

Ciao.

Originally Posted by surasshu

I'm more concerned with the vast number of repeats of last year, just at a glance I saw like ten or so that I vividly remember. If the point is to expose people to new music, it's silly unless you think nobody remembered that song from last year, and if the point is to win--they didn't make it last year, why would it be different this time? They didn't get any better with age I can assure you, and there are so many other awesome songs to choose from.

Song of Mana from Legend of Mana didn't make it to the top 16 of the '04 BSC (I don't know what round it actually lost), but it won the '05 contest.

I don't actually disagree with your point, though.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by Tails

Sometimes I wonder if you guys read what you type before you hit reply.

Good thing you're here, right?

All snarkin' and countersnarkin' aside, I don't know either if it's a good idea to mess with the formula, honestly I would prefer it if people just didn't nominate tracks that already ran out of their own volition (THAT IS, THEY SHOULD BE MORE LIKE ME). I mean, it's not a huge deal, but it does diminish the fun of this whole endeavor a little bit to me. And with how many repeats I saw on the first page, (and I mean tracks that just from seeing the title, I remembered from start to finish, not "hmmm let me google that I KNEW IT!") I just had this "Ground Hog's Day" feeling, so I posted about it.

But you're right, hearing Baba Yetu a few more times certainly won't kill me. Carry on.

Ciao.

Well, alright, I'll drop the idea of enforcing the rule. I was just thinking too, that if there's a lot of nominations and only a fraction of those noms make up the 256 songs that gain entry into the contest, it wouldn't make sense to ban those tracks that didn't even get a chance. I'm sure there's always at least one person that renominates something that didn't get in the year before.

And pandemonium stated my point, that if we gather everything together and put it into a database, comparing noms is as easy as hitting Ctrl+F and searching from there (although there's the issue of track names, so I suppose one would have to search the game where the track came from instead).

orion, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, as I didn't partake in the 2005 contest, but I got these files off Kairyu ages back:

Spoiler:

Tails, I'm not saying something extreme ought to happen to people or they ought to have no say in BSC matters if they do happen to nominate something that was heard in a previous contest. A little slap on the wrist or just a tiny warning saying "that song isn't eligible" would be good enough for me.

I remember some people complaining about some Mega Man tune being nominated numerous times over the years, and it didn't look like it made the Top 16, ever. I wouldn't get pissed off to see repeats (it is an internet contest like you would say), I'm just saying it's redundant to renominate something when it didn't succeed the year before.

I suppose songs that almost made the Top 16, yet didn't, could be renominated as that fact says the song is enjoyable for most and hey, it might be nice to hear it again after a year. But it isn't the same case for stuff that, say, lost the first or second round.

Cheers.

BSC stands for Best Song Contest.

Not Best Song That Nobody Round These Parts Has Ever Heard Before.

Stop complicating shit, folks. If Joe Schmoe thinks "Track X" is the best thing he's heard, then that's his opinion and it's entirely within the definition of the contest for him to nominate Track X.

Who cares if Track X has been nominated in previous years? This is a glorified popularity contest; if most people are tired of Track X, the voting results will eventually reflect this. Let Joe Schmoe enjoy seeing his favorite song compete. It's his contest too.

We have a weekly competition for the new and unheard stuff already, remember?

Ciao.

Originally Posted by surasshu

But you're right, hearing Baba Yetu a few more times certainly won't kill me. Carry on.

Wait... So you mean Baba Yetu was in the BGC before, but never reached the final 16?

Suddenly I'm not feeling so optimistic anymore.

Cheers.

The pre-BSC hype engine can be a merciless bitch. Baba Yetu peaked too early.

Ciao.

Originally Posted by Basil

And pandemonium stated my point, that if we gather everything together and put it into a database, comparing noms is as easy as hitting Ctrl+F and searching from there (although there's the issue of track names, so I suppose one would have to search the game where the track came from instead).

I agree. It'll be a useful tool for some people even while the rules remain unchanged. I'll take a bit longer than I thought it would, though, due to the fact that no single master list of the '06 and '07 songs exists, and I have to copynpaste it from the archives song threads.

Quote:

orion, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, as I didn't partake in the 2005 contest, but I got these files off Kairyu ages back:

That's exactly 50% of what I'm looking for I just need to know which songs advanced past the prelims now, and their seed numbers. If worst comes to worst, I'll just throw the lot in there with a note. Thanks to my own archives, I know nos. 245 and 253.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by orion_mk3

I'll take a bit longer than I thought it would, though, due to the fact that no single master list of the '06 and '07 songs exists, and I have to copynpaste it from the archives song threads.

The lists are here and here (honorable mentions for 2006 are listed later down the page).


I didn't see your post until now and I was gonna go back here to post these links anyways, for quick reference for everyone else. Maybe it'd help to edit these on the main post as well?

Ciao.

Originally Posted by Basil

The lists are here and here (honorable mentions for 2006 are listed later down the page).


I didn't see your post until now and I was gonna go back here to post these links anyways, for quick reference for everyone else. Maybe it'd help to edit these on the main post as well?

Eh, I already finished with a master list. The copying and pasting did let me catch some typos and make sure the terminology was consistent (though there are probably a few errors left).

Here is the master list of every song that made it into the contest in 2004-2007. It's a long one and might take a moment to load; 241-244, 246-252, and 254-256 are missing from '05 for the reasons discussed above.

Cheers.

Here are your missing tracks from 2005.

241 Final Fantasy IX - Crossing Those Hills
242 Chrono Cross - Time of the Dreamwatch
243 Ys - Palace of Destruction
246 Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - Mystic Cave Zone
247 Soul Calibur II - Raise Thy Sword
248 Castlevania Symphony of the Night - Dance of Pales
249 Suikoden - Beautiful Golden City
250 Kingdom Hearts - Hollow Bastion
251 Baten Kaitos - Vitriolic a Stroke
252 Breath of Fire IV - Yet the Merchants Will Go
254 Dracula X - Slash
255 Tsugunai - Fortress of Orcs
256 Tales of Symphonia - Fatalize

Ciao.

Originally Posted by MrMonkeyMan

Here are your missing tracks from 2005.

Thanks! For some reason I left #244 off the list; I need that one too

Cheers.

244 Enthusia ~Professional Racing~ - Under A Blue Sky

There you go.

Ciao.