[PC] World of Warcraft

Meh I have no problem with raiding, especially since the guild I'm in well, 80% of rogues have mostly tier 1/2 items so whenever I get done with college they siad they will deck me out since I've proven myself that even with no FR(Yes I had no FR at the time) and in PVP that I hit like a truck and do very well for being all pre MC PVP stuff.

Though I still want to get some SC gloves and get to 4 pieces of darkmantle so I have two chances of restoring energy. That shit has saved my life so many times, cause since I'm a troll. I went zerking, slice n dice(2 points) and blade flurry and from my scrolling combat I was gaining so much energy, so fast. Not to mention with adren rush, oh boy there we go.

Originally Posted by dagget

Everything has been raid oriented since the inclusion of Dire Maul.

The game shipped with one raid dungeon. Raiders actually had far less content than the rest of the population but a lot of casuals can't seem to grasp that concept. They see Naxxramas being released in 1.11 and think it was created yesterday. Dungeons take quite some time to make.

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Hellfire Citadel is a 5-man dungeon.. that leads into a raid dungeon.

Last I heard there are three wings to it. Two are 5-10 man and one is 40 man.



I personally enjoy raiding quite a bit. Obviously raiding isn't your cup of tea since you seem to hate everything about it. The expansion should overflow with quests and content just for you. The raiding content they are adding to the current game was very much needed. If my guild and I still had only Molten Core to run after a year and a half I'd probably jump into traffic.

The only time I hate raiding is when you got asshats who think they are so hardcore/cool for raiding so much and being an expert when you ask questions they yell at you or if you screw up they yell. Instead of taking in a constructive manner.

The as well, I love the guild I'm in because stuff we farm, all we have to say is ok we're doing this any questions aks your class lead, other then that then we joke around and talk as he take down the person.

I hate very serious raids. I mean be serious enough to win but not so serious it's like a second job.

Originally Posted by dagget

I knew someone was going to bring up Burning Crusade, but you know what? It's probably too little, too late for any kind of content like that. Everything has been raid oriented since the inclusion of Dire Maul. (From my understanding) and I highly doubt there would have even been a "band-aid fix" of tier 0.5 gear (holy shit, what a laugh.) if there hadn't been that article in some magazine saying that Blizzard lied about staying casual friendly.

I'll get the expansion, but as far as I'm concerned, I don't know how much longer after I'll stay. Karazhan will be the first "casual" dungeon that has the 3-5 day timer on it, because of it having something like 18 bosses in it. Oh but don't let the fact it's a level 70 dungeon throw anyone off.

Hellfire Citadel is a 5-man dungeon.. that leads into a raid dungeon.

See, I wouldn't be too pissed about 20 man instances, because hell, UBRS was 15 man. Not that hard to get 5 more. But damn, 40 man instances is just crazy and of course the new tier 3 sets that are rumored to be part of Naxx... yeah, I can just see myself, not even decked out in full tier 0, much less ZG gear, going against guilds who have Naxx on farm status in BGs.

It's all about raiding and people having stupid rules to go along with said raiding. It's just dumb.

You raid dungeons to get loot to prepare you to raid the next... it goes on and on and on.

Uhm, don't take this the wrong way, but maybe you should just quit the game now? From all of your previous posts, it sounds like it's causing you more stress than enjoyment overall.

I couldn't resist, it's a damn good t-shirt... And I've met a lot of people from my own realm, stormreaver since like majority of the players are from Wisconsin, in my city. Though most of them are alliance. :X My shoes got spat at once cause the guy knew me cause I kicked his ass. Regardless...

Anyone know any good feral druid guides or builds? I'm thinking 10/31/10.

Originally Posted by Kaelin

Uhm, don't take this the wrong way, but maybe you should just quit the game now? From all of your previous posts, it sounds like it's causing you more stress than enjoyment overall.

I'l fucking take it the wrong way, sideways, each every fucking way there is!!!111 heh

I'm full of stress anyway :P, and the game has long since lost it's enjoyment. Mainly after I hit 60 and there wasn't shit to do except raid raid raid. I have time left on my account, I'm not just going to waste it.

It just sucks that Blizzard lied on the selling point of their game, of course, no one wouldn't have bought it if they knew it was just going to end up EverQuest Jr.

Originally Posted by Six Machine

The game shipped with one raid dungeon. Raiders actually had far less content than the rest of the population but a lot of casuals can't seem to grasp that concept. They see Naxxramas being released in 1.11 and think it was created yesterday. Dungeons take quite some time to make.

Of course there wasn't raid content when the game came out. It was marketed as a MMORPG unlike the rest in which you wouldn't have to raid to progress. Hell, people beat MC before Blizzard were ready for them to, infact I want to say the first guild that beat MC were banned or something. (Don't know how true it is, just what I've heard). You didn't expect to raid from day 1.

Yes, it takes a while for content to be created, and I realize that Naxx was talked about since the beginning, but that doesn't mean in the year and half the game has been out, the last 5-10 man dungeon created was like Dire Maul.

Raiders can't seem to grasp that not everyone wants to raid and that before 60, raiding wasn't necessary.

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Last I heard there are three wings to it. Two are 5-10 man and one is 40 man.

Oooh two wings. :\ Point is, if I want to experience the lore of the game, I'll have to just join a dumb hardcore raiding guild.

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I personally enjoy raiding quite a bit. Obviously raiding isn't your cup of tea since you seem to hate everything about it. The expansion should overflow with quests and content just for you. The raiding content they are adding to the current game was very much needed. If my guild and I still had only Molten Core to run after a year and a half I'd probably jump into traffic.

Raiding becomes a problem, when people make it a chore. Rules about showing up, point-based "bartering" systems, people screaming at each other over vent. Fuck man, I've been told I need to go into a complete 51 point def spec because apparently if you have all 51 points into prot, it makes you a "better tank".

It's just... ridiculous at all the shit that goes on. All for virtual items.

I actually know someone who was kicked out of a hardcore raiding guild, because he couldn't make the raid runs due to him MOVING. That's why I hate raiding. Because it just seems everyone has to make all these shitty rules just so they can make themselves feel big and important.

This is a game, it shouldn't be treated like a chore. :\

Also, I never once said it wasn't needed, just that damn man. BWL/ZG/AQ20 and 40 all in a row. Now with people being able to down C'Thun (Which probably had a block on it to prevent it from being beatable until Blizzard was ready to release Naxx) here comes Naxx with like 5 wings or something. heh. I give it a month before some guild gets to the last part. :P

Ok, I'm done ranting. It just pisses me off the direction the game went into, so are alot of people sadly. :\

Oh and I also go into MC, but we'll wait and see how long that lasts.

PPS: You do realize that I'm just starting shit for teh sake of putting life back in this thread, right? :P Although I'm really pissed at the fact the game did a complete 180 and it is RAID or DIE at the end. :\

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Of course there wasn't raid content when the game came out. It was marketed as a MMORPG unlike the rest in which you wouldn't have to raid to progress.

Actually, it was marketed as a game friendly to all walks of players. That would include raiders and non-raiders. Since raiding is not practical before level 60 you see a lot of 60 content in the form of raid dungeons.

Non-raiders can progress, although the gear from casual content is obviously not as great as many things from BWL and beyond. I agree that people who don't want to raid should have a couple more dungeons, but it's a little late in the development cycle for that. Even if they started on a 5 man dungeon two months ago it wouldn't be complete until after the expansion's launch. I'm sure Blizzard has learned from their mistakes in planning and are making sure the expansion casual friendly even at 70.

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Hell, people beat MC before Blizzard were ready for them to, infact I want to say the first guild that beat MC were banned or something. (Don't know how true it is, just what I've heard). You didn't expect to raid from day 1.

If you are counting Ragnaros in "beating" Molten Core then no, people did not do that before Blizzard wanted. Much like C'Thun, Ragnaros had to be nerfed several times before it was even possible to kill him. Other than Rag the instance is fairly straightforward. I've never heard of a guild getting banned for completing content, though.

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Yes, it takes a while for content to be created, and I realize that Naxx was talked about since the beginning, but that doesn't mean in the year and half the game has been out, the last 5-10 man dungeon created was like Dire Maul.

They're making new raid dungeons to even out the raid to non-raid ratio. Making more non-raid dungeons while working on raid dungeons would keep the ratio the same. Keep in mind Blizzard's staff is a finite resource.

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Raiders can't seem to grasp that not everyone wants to raid and that before 60, raiding wasn't necessary.

I realise not everyone wants to raid. Raid instances pre-60 makes little sense from a design perspective. Most raiders acknowledge that many don't like to raid. I see few casuals acknowledge the other portion of players who do.

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Oooh two wings. :\ Point is, if I want to experience the lore of the game, I'll have to just join a dumb hardcore raiding guild.

Do you think a god such as C'Thun or equally important beings should be killed in a 5 man? I don't mean that in any mocking way. I'm simply curious as to your opinion.

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Raiding becomes a problem, when people make it a chore. Rules about showing up, point-based "bartering" systems, people screaming at each other over vent. Fuck man, I've been told I need to go into a complete 51 point def spec because apparently if you have all 51 points into prot, it makes you a "better tank".

Other than what I assume is DKP (point-based "bartering" systems) it sounds like you were in a pretty crappy guild.

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This is a game, it shouldn't be treated like a chore. :\

I agree.

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Also, I never once said it wasn't needed, just that damn man. BWL/ZG/AQ20 and 40 all in a row.

I believe ZG and AQ20 are supposed to be aimed at the post-UBRS crowd who may not necessarily want to raid MC.

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PPS: You do realize that I'm just starting shit for teh sake of putting life back in this thread, right? :P Although I'm really pissed at the fact the game did a complete 180 and it is RAID or DIE at the end. :\

I'm simply having a friendly discussion. If anything I said came off as rude or angry I apologize.

Nah, see here's where I lie. I understand there are both parts to the game. 1-59 then 60-raid. While I agree that there should be challenging raids and shit, it's just ridiculous that you have to progress through raiding. Do I want better gear? Yes. Am I asking for easy epics? No.

No, C'Thun shouldn't be downed 5-man. LOL. But at the same time, although from what I hear, nothing really exciting drops except enchants and maybe a weapon and piece of armor or two from AQ. I'm just worried more about thegear disparity in the game.

Honestly, the 0.5 is a joke of a "fix" when you think about it. It's just a different pallet (sp?) tier 0 armor with a few "upgraded stats" but the exact same bonuses, except they're in reverse. Sure, I happen to think Heroism looks better than Valor as well as the upgraded Shadowcraft, Lightforge and a couple of others, look better than the original. But it really doesn't do anything to cover the gap. I think that's the biggest problem most casual people have. It's not really fair to go into AV or 60s WSG/AB with people decked out in tier 2 shit. It actually sucks. On my warrior I have almost 8000 armor and 385 defense (that's if I have all my +Def shit equipped) and I still get owned in 3-4 hits by someone who hits me for like 1500-2000 crits 3-4 times in a row, because they have Ashkandi or other ridiculously high-tiered items like that.

Sure, I do MC 2 nights a week, in a guild that doesn't do DKP. (which is awesome for me, because I dislike DKP and no, I don't want to get into another DKP discussion so I'll drop it there.) and it's not on farm status just yet. (The guild was a former raiding guild that split due to different raiding perspectives, that had MC, Ony and part of BWL on farm status so now they're having to relearn everything again with a new crew)

I dunno, I just fear when the expansion comes out, it'll indeed have a plethora of new content, but then after that, it'll all be raid content again until another stink is raised and put in a public media form to have Blizzard once again make "band-aid fixes" and "promises" of new content.

Hell, everyone's already calling this game EverQuest's Little Sister, in which what was led to believe wasn't going to be like EQ at all. :\

Maybe the new Warhammer online game coming out will be cool.

I doubt Blizzard wants to deal with rabid casuals a second time over. I don't know how, but I'm betting level 70 will be a non-raider friendly place to be. At least until people find something new to complain about.

I am looking forward to the level 70 greens that are better than most raiding weapons. That'll be cool.

old new for most of you rogues.. but i just got Nightslayer belt tonight! go me.

Wow, the Mages are PISSED about their review.

At first, I could understand because it looked like Shatter was nerfed to 10% crit to frost (compared to 50%), but then IGN changed it. It's now 50% crit, for all spells.

Sit there and blink a moment. Would you like to see a mage running in an AE bombing and getting a 50% crit rate? Uhh....

And then they got Improved Arcane Explosion, AND Evocation as a class-trainable talent... yet now they're complaining about the Arcane tree being shit. I can sorta understand about the gap between Tier 1 and Tier 5 talents, but you guys got exactly what you asked for in the Arcane tree.

I just hope the Shammy review is better. Eyonix (the Blizzard CM for shamans) has said that they'll be revealed next week.

*crosses fingers for a good review that makes non-resto shammys viable in end-game raids*

we downed domo today(3time trying) and got to rag! im so phscyed right now. Didnt beat him tho:P

Here's a cool picture. It's C'thun's lazer eye move.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by nwzinc

Here's a cool picture. It's C'thun's lazer eye move.

/r spoil tags.

YOU RUINED AQ40 FOR ME YOU BITCH. >=(

lol.. like i did rag for MC? but most guilds have MC on farm status.. so if it spoils some of you.. sorry