South Dakota bans most abortions

Originally Posted by Cat9

Quite a presumptuous statement dont you think? Once again, if pro-lifers cannot act upon thier own beliefs, then are they really free?

His point is that you're free to act in any way you want to. What you're not free to do is to deny or otherwise limit other people's decisions.

Pro-Lifers aren't having their babies forcefully aborted now are they? Well at least not in this country. I've heard they do that in China.

Originally Posted by Zio

Pro-lifers think that allowing abortation is forcing wrong beliefs on everyone.

Pro-choice thinks that not allowing is.

And that pretty much sums up everything, except the whole "baby soldiers" thing.

Originally Posted by Watts

His point is that you're free to act in any way you want to. What you're not free to do is to deny or otherwise limit other people's decisions.

So what youre saying is that pro-lifers should become pro-choice? Isnt that (youre quote) the definition of pro-choice?

Originally Posted by Cat9

So what youre saying is that pro-lifers should become pro-choice? Isnt that (youre quote) the definition of pro-choice?

I'm not really saying anything. Merely trying to clarify what somebody else said. I just support the status quo. It pleases nobody. It doesn't have to. It works.

States are free to put whatever limits they deem necessary, yet they lack the power to outright ban them.

In a well run democracy, I don't see freedom as being as important, let alone more important, than the majority's opinion. It's pretty clear what the people of South Dakota want. If you're saying that your freedom is more important than the majority's decisions, why have any laws at all?

They can act upon their beliefs by not partaking in the procedure... that's what pro-choice is... having the choice whether or or not you wish to partake in something. If your religious or personal beliefs are that you should not partake in something then that is your choice to follow your belief. Enacting a law that places those beliefs for all to have to follow removes that choice to for an individual to decide.

So do a lot of laws. Why do we have a law against murder in general? That's just Christian Ten Commandments hogwash anway.

I think that might also come out of the "My rights end where yours begin."

Quote:

In a well run democracy, I don't see freedom as being as important, let alone more important, than the majority's opinion. It's pretty clear what the people of South Dakota want. If you're saying that your freedom is more important than the majority's decisions, why have any laws at all?

Isn't that one of the reasons we're not a pure democracy?

We're not a pure democracy because when our country was founded, it was not practical. We remain a fake democracy because it's nearly impossible to change anything in this country, especially when the people in power are so comfortable.

Originally Posted by Minion

So do a lot of laws. Why do we have a law against murder in general? That's just Christian Ten Commandments hogwash anway.

Why are you assuming a law against murder automatically has religious foundations?

One can be moral without religion. I think it's safe to assume taking a life is a bad thing considering there is no coming back. Religion doesn't need to tell me this.

Why are you assuming a law against abortion has religious foundations? I don't need religion to tell me not to terminate a pregnancy.

Originally Posted by Minion

So do a lot of laws. Why do we have a law against murder in general? That's just Christian Ten Commandments hogwash anway.

There you get into the whole moral and immoral (or amoral for some) discussion. Is it moral or immoral to kill another human? Various religions believe it is immoral and not just Christianity. Then again, various religions find it moral under certain circumstances... even when the rest of the world might, uhmmm, frown on it.

Listen, I can think gravity doesn't exist and the world is flat. That doesn't make it so.

Originally Posted by Minion

Why are you assuming a law against abortion has religious foundations? I don't need religion to tell me not to terminate a pregnancy.

Because it is a purely religious debate at this point? Who is asking for this? The Religious right. Sorry they MADE it about religion as soon as they started quoting scripture and preaching to us fems on how our body is merely a vessel for a life that is more important than our own.

Uh, you do realize that some women, even *gasp* secular women, are anti-abortion?

Originally Posted by Minion

We're not a pure democracy because when our country was founded, it was not practical. We remain a fake democracy because it's nearly impossible to change anything in this country, especially when the people in power are so comfortable.

You want to get rid of the Supreme Court?

Originally Posted by Minion

Uh, you do realize that some women, even *gasp* secular women, are anti-abortion?

Obviously you missed the point.

Whether or not there are women in support of the issue doesn't negate the fact that I'm being preached to by a religious majority on the issue of my rights. This issue is purely religious.

You would get preached at regardless. People preach about all sorts of things. That doesn't mean their only possible motivation is religion.

And don't forget that I said secular women. Not just women.

Originally Posted by Minion

You would get preached at regardless. People preach about all sorts of things. That doesn't mean their only possible motivation is religion.

And don't forget that I said secular women. Not just women.

Don't forget that it's the religious right calling for this so how is not religiously motivated?

Maybe these people should adopt more kids, since you know that's their big argument for keeping the baby.

Anyone else notice how you don't hear about these morality topics during years where there isn't elections? I wonder why that is.

So, how does it feel to be manipulated as tools of a political agenda?

Maybe they should. I'm not arguing that.

You see, your mistake is labeling these people "the religious right" - a fringe movement that is a loud minority. I think this may be a flawed perception, though. Taken as a whole, I'm not convinced that our country supports abortion. And don't go showing me any polls, either. Most people who are against abortion probably never participate in those.

Our country doesn't support it one way or the other. We're made up of individuals who deserve the right to choose what is best for them in "private." By keeping it legal we're assuring that those who have religious convictions can choose not to while those in dire need can.

By making it illegal you're just stripping women of clinics and safer procedures. Before clinics and the legalization women shoved screw drivers, coat hangers and objects up there, ingested "herbal" remedies and rich ones could even secretly enlist the help of a doctor.

The problem with the "you're commiting murder" ploy is that it's an extremely subjective issue when a "cluster of cells" is considered a "life" or vice versa. "Potential life" is not a concrete idea or principle. Is it the moment of conception? The 2nd trimester? The embryo?</