North American Union

Night Phoenix made me think of this with his take of Hillary's health plan.
North American Union to Replace the USA? - HUMAN EVENTS

I'm uncomfortable with it. That all I have to say because if I said more...well we alreay have one religious thread.

What do you think. Good thing bad thing?

I think the article's a giant conspiracy theory and holds no merit whatsoever.

Do you have anything more credible? I couldn't find much.

Still, I don't really understand what this matters. What's wrong with open borders?

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

Do you have anything more credible? I couldn't find much.

Still, I don't really understand what this matters. What's wrong with open borders?

I thought the whole outrage about this would be that it would sacrifice American sovereignty, allowing Bush and others to create a new constitution that would do away a lot of civil rights and put big business in power. Granted I think the idea that this could be fully endorsed by the governments of all three nations, without out any debate or visibility is quite unlikely.

Originally Posted by Excrono

I thought the whole outrage about this would be that it would sacrifice American sovereignty, allowing Bush and others to create a new constitution that would do away a lot of civil rights and put big business in power. Granted I think the idea that this could be fully endorsed by the governments of all three nations, without out any debate or visibility is quite unlikely.

I was under the impression that America would dominate the other countries in power due to superior financial and material wealth. However, I speak humbly in admitting I do not really understand the nature of this potential Union without actually reading a really article on the issue. (The potential NAU is not even yet on Wikipedia).

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Night Phoenix made me think of this with his take of Hillary's health plan.
North American Union to Replace the USA? - HUMAN EVENTS

I'm uncomfortable with it. That all I have to say because if I said more...well we alreay have one religious thread.

What do you think. Good thing bad thing?

How in the fuck does this have anything to do with religion?

Also, the NAU is a concept that has been kicked around forever, and won't come to pass so long as there is such a massive difference in material wealth between the northern countries and Mexico.

Lou Dobbs did a show on this a couple months back. He got one of the older, more senile senators to appear on the program to condemn this kind of action.

Only to find out nobody knows what the fuck they were talking about. All three countries that represent North America are plenty content with their current borders and sovereignty. End of story.

My history professor touched on this subject a couple lectures ago (I know it's not history, but he went on a bunnytrail like he usually does). There are talks of it, and apparently, Bush is supposed to be meeting up Steven Harper(Canada's prime minister) in the near future, with one of the topics being along this line.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

How in the fuck does this have anything to do with religion?

I have to admit that I was wondering this myself, but I didn't really want to give LordsSword the opportunity to open that particular debate. Still it should be interesting to see his response.

Originally Posted by Soluzar

I have to admit that I was wondering this myself, but I didn't really want to give LordsSword the opportunity to open that particular debate. Still it should be interesting to see his response.

Nice to see you again!

People, please refrain from slamming the bible. I already know the common views for and against the book.

Revelation 6:2 the rider of the white horse-has a bow but no arrows. Its taught in some circles that the start of end times is a bloodless conquest of the worlds nations.

Asia is not far behind either.
http://www.chinabusinessreview.com/p...7/gresser.html
http://www.southasianunion.net/

That wasn't a very interesting response.

I'm going to need you to provide more basis for a discussion if this is going to continue.

Originally Posted by Soluzar

I have to admit that I was wondering this myself, but I didn't really want to give LordsSword the opportunity to open that particular debate. Still it should be interesting to see his response.

I had this insanely long post asking him what it had to do with religion as well, but I thought posting it would only encourage him to do exactly what he is doing now.

Wasn't this thread about a North American Union? Sigh.

Anyways, I think it's kind of ridiculous idea. It sounds more to me like America is fed up dealing with it's own issues of border protection and is just throwing in the towel.

I can't imagine how upset Canada would be if they were to be thrown in the pot with the Americans and the American system. Or, vice versa.

And let's not even TALK about Mexicans. ^_^

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Nice to see you again!

In a spirit of diplomacy, I'll say that it is interesting to see you again. I've been observing your posts in your most favoured thread with some interest. I am banned from that thread, which is perhaps for the best. In any event, all that I am missing out on is you having much the same discussion with Sassafrass as you have previously had with me. I trust you're enjoying it.

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People, please refrain from slamming the bible. I already know the common views for and against the book.

Nobody was doing that even a little in this thread. I see a total of three people confused as to exactly what this has to do with religion, and none of them have criticised the Bible in any way. I think you're perhaps seeing what you expect to see.

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Its taught in some circles that the start of end times is a bloodless conquest of the worlds nations.

It seems that to believe that the "end times" are close at hand is endemic to Christianity. At any given time in history, the signs can be seen if one is looking for them. The world has thus far failed to end. There seems to me little value in discussing something over which humans would have no control over, were it to take place.

Are you not interested in discussing the political implications of a hypothetical North American Union at all? This is the Political Palace, not the Religious Romper Room, you know.

While I certainly don't blame Denicallis for asking the obvious question, I knew it would lead to such a discussion as this. You could just have not mentioned religion in regards of this topic. There's plenty to discuss without involving religion. Primarily we should be discussing how this is a wild conspiracy theory which could almost certainly never come to pass. I'm pretty certain that the Canadians would have a lot to say about becoming politically united with the United States.

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Asia is not far behind either.

I won't deny the possibility of Asian nations merging their economic strength to a certain degree, in the attempt to compete more effectively with the West. However, that would be about all I would expect. There is a great deal of rivalry and hatred between the countries of East Asia, and I really do doubt that China and Japan would ever agree to any kind of political union.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

I had this insanely long post asking him what it had to do with religion as well, but I thought posting it would only encourage him to do exactly what he is doing now.

Already you know him so well.

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Anyways, I think it's kind of ridiculous idea. It sounds more to me like America is fed up dealing with it's own issues of border protection and is just throwing in the towel.

Pretty much. I can imagine that it might lead to a far more open policy regarding immigration into America, which wouldn't be entirely a bad thing. After all, immigrants do take American jobs, but only the ones most Americans would rather not do.

Originally Posted by Soluzar

In a spirit of diplomacy, I'll say that it is interesting to see you again. I've been observing your posts in your most favoured thread with some interest. I am banned from that thread, which is perhaps for the best. In any event, all that I am missing out on is you having much the same discussion with Sassafrass as you have previously had with me. I trust you're enjoying it.

Yes I am having the time of my life. It's too bad you cant contribute. I would have expected you to have grown in different ways.

Originally Posted by Soluzar

Nobody was doing that even a little in this thread. I see a total of three people confused as to exactly what this has to do with religion, and none of them have criticised the Bible in any way. I think you're perhaps seeing what you expect to see.

I just wanted to set the tone before things got out of hand.

Originally Posted by Soluzar

It seems that to believe that the "end times" are close at hand is endemic to Christianity. At any given time in history, the signs can be seen if one is looking for them. The world has thus far failed to end. There seems to me little value in discussing something over which humans would have no control over, were it to take place.

Are you not interested in discussing the political implications of a hypothetical North American Union at all? This is the Political Palace, not the Religious Romper Room, you know.

My religious buddies have some interest in a deal like this, so much so the airwaves are full of converstions about it.
There are political implications but right now my people are just grumbling about the prospect of such a union. They may vote against people who support it or strive to undermine the union in some way. In any case the religious camp is taking notice.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Yes I am having the time of my life. It's too bad you cant contribute. I would have expected you to have grown in different ways.

Different ways than I have, or different ways than those in which I was "growing" before? Either way, it's kinda off topic, but I'm curious.

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I just wanted to set the tone before things got out of hand.

Things showed no signs of getting out of hand. You could have just not made any religious reference in your first post, and waited until the topic was up and running before making a move in that direction. As part of the free flow of lively debate, I dare say it might have been readily accepted.

As it stands, with the current degree of off-topic posting, I fully expect this thread to be closed, since it doesn't have any kind of coherent debate taking place.

The political threads are moderated rather pro-actively around here. I'm sure you won't find that particular attitude at all unfamiliar.

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My religious buddies have some interest in a deal like this, so much so the airwaves are full of converstions about it.

If you want to take in that direction, I'm willing to go with you. I don't see a problem with it, if I try to view this move from a Christian point of view. The whole of the Americas have a Christian presence, and have done for hundreds of years. In fact, the Christian presense in American nations other than the United States may be even stronger than that within the United States. You'd still be part of a country with a strong Christian tradition.

If that's not your objection, then it must be that which you mentioned before, that a "bloodless conquest" may be seen as the herald of the end times". I would have to say that in this instance, the notion does not hold up to scrutiny at first glance.

Who is the Antichrist in all of this? I would not expect a conservative individual such as yourself to advocate that George W. Bush should be considered the Antichrist. It is he who will take over the Earth in a bloodless conquest, according to the eschatological writings I have read.

I would also point out that North America is only a small part of the Earth, and that unless this Union plans to extend their reach, they don't really fullfil the terms of the prophesies.

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There are political implications but right now my people are just grumbling about the prospect of such a union.

Explain why. You've already opened the whole can of worms, so you might as well not hold back.

Originally Posted by Soluzar

If you want to take in that direction, I'm willing to go with you. I don't see a problem with it, if I try to view this move from a Christian point of view. The whole of the Americas have a Christian presence, and have done for hundreds of years. In fact, the Christian presense in American nations other than the United States may be even stronger than that within the United States. You'd still be part of a country with a strong Christian tradition.

You have a flair that I miss sometimes. Some here could learn from you.
Frankly I just don't like things to change. It could be a good thing, I don't know. The Euro thing seems ok but see the citizens place in such a union without living it... makes it hard to judge where to stand.

But LordsSword, if the borders are opened up, it'll be easier for your missionaries to go down to mexico! None of this strict border crossing laws. Think of what it'll do for your religion.

I get the feeling that if such a union were to come into effect, certain provinces would welcome it with open arms, while others would outright reject it, Quebec being the one in particular, but nobody wants them anyways.

The biggest issue I could see would be with Mexico though, since the standards of life and Government structure vary a lot more than that of Canada and the U.S.

However such a union would allow North America to become very self sufficient in many area's to compete with the European Union and the likes of the upcoming Super-power China etc..
Mexico would provide much of the.. cheap labour if you will, similar to that of China. Canada has rich resources *Oil, Uranium, Lumber etc...* and some manufacturing capabilities. The U.S is.. well... The U.S.

That being said though... I don't see something like this happening in the near future.