So about this Florida U student

Originally Posted by LZ

It seems like the kid was intentionally asking a retarded question, so the police were simply trying to move him from the mic at first, not arrest him. The mic had cut off, so it was obvious that his turn was over, but he still wasn't leaving. They tasered him after he repeatedly tried to resist them.

Oh come on, it's not like he asked Kerry "Durrrrrr do you know you look like that dude from the Munsters?!" He had questions he wanted to ask, and the police gestapo take him away because audience members are 'gasping'? >_>. The dude's rights as an american were being trampeled on, and he didn't make a scene at all, until the Police and whoever tried to silence his mic and cut him off...aka censoring. I would sue.

Originally Posted by Karasu

Oh come on, it's not like he asked Kerry "Durrrrrr do you know you look like that dude from the Munsters?!"

Yes, because asking "We're you in the skull and bones with George Bush in college?" is a much more intelligent question.

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He had questions he wanted to ask, and the police gestapo take him away because audience members are 'gasping'? >_>.

They didn't take him away because the audience was 'gasping.' They cut off his mic because he was purposefully making disruptive comments after the events organizers had told him that they didn't have time for him to preface his question with a twenty minute speech.

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The dude's rights as an american were being trampeled on, and he didn't make a scene at all, until the Police and whoever tried to silence his mic and cut him off...aka censoring. I would sue.

What rights of his were being trampled on? Freedom of speech? Do you even know anything about freedom of speech? This has nothing to do with his ability to say and think what he wants. This is about the organizers not wanting him to disrupt the event. He could go outside and say anything that he wants, no one is stopping him from having his view points and expressing them. You should take note that Kerry was actually going to respond to the question of Kerry's concession and that no one tried to stop the man from speaking until his questions became disruptive. At which point he was asked to leave.

Freedom of speech is not absolute and is dependent on the situation. What one can say and do without consequences should be a matter of common sense. You can't run into a movie theater and shout 'fire'.

What exactly would you sue for?

Originally Posted by CloudNine

What exactly would you sue for?

Damages to his ego, obviously. :/

Police gestapo? Fascism? God, grow up, kid. You clearly have no idea what oppression really is.

@CloudNine

Ok, so they were asking him to leave, even though Kerry was going to answer his question. They still forced him out of there because of his questions. It was an open public forum, and just because his questions were more than 30 seconds does not give anyone the right to remove him silence him. That is censorship.

Too many people in politics and in political situations, never say what they want to say and/or ask because they might insult or hurt someone's feelings. I'm tired of that. I'm not saying 'be disrespectful and rude' what I am saying is we need the press or people who question gov't motives or sentaors, mayors, governers, blabla to be free to ask and debate issues without being frowned upon because of feelings being hurt or its something THEY dont want to hear. If those people there were disgusted by his comments, they could have left and/or just ignored him and let him get his schtick out.


And by the video...the event was disrupted when people were trying to silence and remove him. THAT is when it became disruption, not after the fact dude.


And personally, I would sue for infrigment of my rights being violated and for police brutality.


@
Denicalis

I can see you are bringing nothing to this discussion, but rather try and insult and belittle me [lol 'kid'] because you don't agree with my view. Why dont stop so we dont have this thread become personal ok? We don't need a flame war, thank you. Bye.

Originally Posted by Karasu

I can see you are bringing nothing to this discussion, but rather try and insult and belittle me [lol 'kid'] because you don't agree with my view.

No, man. I really don't think you understand what oppression really is. Why else would you use that ever-so-witty comparison of school campus rent-a-cops to... oh... THE GERMAN GESTAPO?

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Why dont stop so we dont have this thread become personal ok? We don't need a flame war, thank you. Bye.

That's great advice. I would advise you to take it.

Originally Posted by Karasu

@CloudNine

Ok, so they were asking him to leave, even though Kerry was going to answer his question. They still forced him out of there because of his questions. It was an open public forum, and just because his questions were more than 30 seconds does not give anyone the right to remove him silence him. That is censorship.

Do you even know what censorship is? His speech was in no way "censored."

Dear Karasu:

If you are reading this, please do me a favor. Go back and read my previous posts, as it seems that you have failed to understand anything that I have said. Please do that before you continue reading the rest of this post.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Karasu

Ok, so they were asking him to leave, even though Kerry was going to answer his question. They still forced him out of there because of his questions. It was an open public forum, and just because his questions were more than 30 seconds does not give anyone the right to remove him silence him. That is censorship.

Censorship? Maybe. Barely. About as much as if I had punched the guy, who was sitting next to me on the bus, in the mouth for humming Fall Out Boy the whole way to class this morning. See, if we were at a Fall Out Boy concert, then it would have been appropriate and in context. But on the bus, it was annoying and disruptive to the people on the bus. If I had punched him in the mouth, it would have silenced his voice because of his singing and that would have been censorship.

Much like the humming of the guy on the bus, the speaker's questions (after the question about Kerry's concession) were out of context and were made with no point other that being disruptive. Once it became apparent that he was no longer legitimately trying to question Kerry, he was asked to leave the microphone, which he refused to do. Thus, he was promptly attempted to be escorted out of the building.

You never answered my question. Do you think that "Were you in a skull and bones with George Bush" was an intelligent and honest question? If he had asked "Do you eat human excrement?" or "How large is your penis?" would you have allowed him to continue speaking? Would removing him under those situations have violated his freedom of speech? What if he got up and started to read from the Florida state phone book? Would it be a violation of his First Amendment rights if they removed him before he got the the B's?

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Too many people in politics and in political situations, never say what they want to say and/or ask because they might insult or hurt someone's feelings. I'm tired of that. I'm not saying 'be disrespectful and rude' what I am saying is we need the press or people who question gov't motives or sentaors, mayors, governers, blabla to be free to ask and debate issues without being frowned upon because of feelings being hurt or its something THEY dont want to hear. If those people there were disgusted by his comments, they could have left and/or just ignored him and let him get his schtick out.

You are right. We definitely need more people like this guy asking the truly hard hitting questions that the citizens of the United States of America would truly like to hear answers about from our political leaders. Jesus Christ, I have been waiting for years for someone to finally get up the courage to ask about Kerry and Bush's alleged college secret society misdeeds.

It was a sponsored 'open forum' put on by the University of Florida. The organizers have a right to remove you if they feel you are being disruptive. This is not congress. There is no filibuster. If you are being an idiot, we don't have to sit and listen to you.

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And by the video...the event was disrupted when people were trying to silence and remove him. THAT is when it became disruption, not after the fact dude.

Actually, it became disruptive after his refusal to leave the microphone stand and subsequent comments.

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And personally, I would sue for infrigment of my rights being violated and for police brutality.

And you would lose and be laughed out of court for being an idiot. Seeing as no rights were being infringed upon and the fact that he was resisting arrest and being uncooperative is enough to justify the police action.

Originally Posted by Karasu

And personally, I would sue for infrigment of my rights being violated and for police brutality.

Which rights, I'm wondering?

The right to make an ass of oneself, of course.

Originally Posted by Karasu

And by the video...the event was disrupted when people were trying to silence and remove him. THAT is when it became disruption, not after the fact dude.

That guy was clearly anxious and overly excited. He couldn't control himself, just listen to him speak. He's been talking fast since the beginning. That alone is a sign for the police to keep an eye on this guy.
Fast talkers are disruptive because they always want to get their word out to "win" the debate. Someone tries to answer but they just keep talking faster and faster and louder because they feel more stronger and powerful. (very fucking annoying because they don't know how to be concise.)

You can see he angles his body and looks towards the audience to try and provoke an uproar in his favor.
He even patronizes Kerry in a sarcastic way, "You won the election. Isn't that amazing?" That's another sign that this guy wanted to dish a huge battle of words with Kerry.
An argument is NOT orderly conduct.
They foresaw this so they pulled the mic.
Now, if the guy kept his cool and spoke calmly from the beginning then the whole thing could've went well.

Originally Posted by Karasu

And personally, I would sue for infrigment of my rights being violated and for police brutality.

Sue?? Brutality?? I didn't see the police use unnecessary force. They were pulling him and then a cop lifted him up and carry him out. Then he got out of hand and they tried to cuff him.
The video at 2:13, the guy is on the floor.
2:28, you hear someone say there's a taser on him.
3:07, you hear the taser popping.
The police held back on using the taser for 39 seconds. That means they had no other choice but to use um.... I guess you'd call it "brutality", to restrain him.


Rule #1: When the po po grabs your arms. You don't fight back or snap your arms out of their hand. As you can see in the video it turns into resisting arrest. And you can be arrested for resisting arrest.

I love that video. The dude got what was coming to him. They taser'd his ass. It went POPopopop. LOLOLOL. This made my day. He was literally screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater.

@Encep

Thats what I was trying to do in the first place, thanks.




@Melomane

Yea, when someone with holds you from speaking your opinion, preventing you from expressing your individuality. The cops and whoever was in charge, clearly was trying to silence him.




@CloudNine

You're making this personal, and I have no desire to battle it out with you, as I can see this entire debate now is "Everyone against Karasu because he's on the kid's side and thinks different like an individual".

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You are right. We definitely need more people like this guy asking the truly hard hitting questions

Your sarcasm and your cuteness are totally uncessary, especially when you didn't read what I said. I said we need people to ask good strong questions and put politicians on the spot without being mocked and laughed at, but we can do it without being rude and disrespectful.


And as for your question, it didn't have true relevance i'll give you that, but...it was a fucking question. Big Deal. Kerry wouldn't have gone into detail about it anyway since it's a secret society.

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Actually, it became disruptive after his refusal to leave the microphone stand and subsequent comments.

And again i'll say it. He wouldn't have been disruptive if he was able to ask his questions and get the answer from Kerry. Good god. Am I the only person here who sees the wrong on the officials part? Obviously I am.




@Jouhou
Yep. Too many cops are trigger happy with those tasers, and these cops are no different in that area. It takes...7....7...cops to handle one college kid? And on top of that they have to taser the guy because they can't handle it. Bad Form.






As I can see though, i'm the lone eagle because I think like an individual and disagree with how these cops and officials handled the situation. It could have been done a lot better. Was the guy obnoxious? Yea I guess. I mean when he was tasered he was saying 'Ow' sarcastically...but hey...has anyone here been tasered? Do you know what it feels like? Probably not. I bet though it feels very painful, and you mock and laugh at him for being tasered? You see enjoyment in his pain? I guess you're a masochist then.


Anyway, i'll receed and let you continue in saying the kid deserved it, blabla. Oh and saying "Lolz good he's gone" or some other snide comment after me leaving shows a ton of immaturity and disrespect on your part. Because you took a debate and turned it into a "I don't agree with you, so i'm going to make this thread now about you and what you say!" Which that's what has happened here. It should have been on the issue, but of course people take one guy's opinion and makes that the focus instead. Bad form, gamingforce. Bad form

Originally Posted by Karasu

this entire debate now is "Everyone against Karasu because he's on the kid's side and thinks different like an individual".

If you thought intelligently like an individual, no one would care.

I mean, it's not just that you're wrong. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You're saying things that maybe sound good but they make no sense. But it's that you just keep chuggin' along.

IMA GONNA SUE
Uh, for what?
MY RIGHTS
What rights?
IMA GONNA SUE

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He wouldn't have been disruptive if he was able to ask his questions and get the answer from Kerry.

And the guy yelling "fire" in a crowded theater didn't cause the riot, but the people running out of the building did?

He was disruptive, which is why they were cutting him off. The fact that he continued to escalate it doesn't mean that he wasn't being disruptive before.

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Bad form, gamingforce. Bad form

Originally Posted by Karasu

@CloudNine

You're making this personal, and I have no desire to battle it out with you, as I can see this entire debate now is "Everyone against Karasu because he's on the kid's side and thinks different like an individual".

Show me once where I made this personal and made a comment about you, personally, that is not relevant to the topic at hand. If you can find a place where I attacked you personally and not your opinion on this issue, then I will apologize, as that was not my intention. But as it stands now, stop trying to be a martyr.

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Your sarcasm and your cuteness are totally uncessary, especially when you didn't read what I said. I said we need people to ask good strong questions and put politicians on the spot without being mocked and laughed at, but we can do it without being rude and disrespectful.

I read exactly what you said and I agreed with you. Asking good strong questions, putting politicians and the stop and holding them accountable for their actions is key to staying informed and keeping our government on track with where we, the people, would like it to go.

What I choose to comment on was the relevance of what you were saying in this case. His 'good strong questions' about Kerry's concession were allowed to be asked and Kerry himself said he was going to answer his question. He was given the chance to speak freely and it was when his questions turned from 'good strong questions' to disrespective and disruptive that he was asked to leave. If he was being mocked and laughed at, it was because his questions were ridiculous. If I went up to George Bush and asked him "How come you don't were a big cowboy hat? You're form Texas aren't you?", I would probably get mocked and laughed at as well. It was a stupid, pointless question with the intent of getting a reaction, of course we are going to laugh at it.

Also, he was being rude and disrespectful to Kerry and the people in the audience. His questions deserved nothing better in response. Don't try and make him a victim in that regard.

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And as for your question, it didn't have true relevance i'll give you that, but...it was a fucking question. Big Deal. Kerry wouldn't have gone into detail about it anyway since it's a secret society.

Like I said before, it wasn't the question that there was a problem with. He could have gone out side and asked that question all he wanted to. No one was taking away his rights to asks questions or state his opinion. What was a problem, though, was the disruptive manner that he choose to make his voice heard. Just because you have a right to free speech does not mean that you the right to voice it anywhere you want, regardless of the disruptions that it may cause. Just like I said before, you can't shout fire in a crowded movie theater.

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And again i'll say it. He wouldn't have been disruptive if he was able to ask his questions and get the answer from Kerry. Good god. Am I the only person here who sees the wrong on the officials part? Obviously I am.

And again I'll say it. The very act of his getting up to the mic and asking his questions was the disruption. His question was inappropriate and did not necessitate an response. Not to mention that he went on a rant about impeaching Bush and Clinton's impeachment for a "blowjob." The actual content of the question is irrelevant. All that matters is that it was disruptive and pointless to the debate at hand. If I had went up to the mic and inquired about about Kerry's personal sex-life, do you think that I would still have been inappropriate for the police to ask me to leave?

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As I can see though, i'm the lone eagle because I think like an individual and disagree with how these cops and officials handled the situation.

How are we not thinking 'individually'? Because there are more than one of us that agree, we must be forming mob mentality and can not possibly hold these opinions of our own volition. You're not a martyr.

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It could have been done a lot better. Was the guy obnoxious? Yea I guess. I mean when he was tasered he was saying 'Ow' sarcastically...but hey...has anyone here been tasered? Do you know what it feels like? Probably not. I bet though it feels very painful, and you mock and laugh at him for being tasered? You see enjoyment in his pain? I guess you're a masochist then.

Have you ever been tasered, either? If not, you're not in a position to comment any more than anyone else is. Being obnoxious and uncooperative is resisting arrest. The police are not going to hold him on the ground for an hour before he decides to give up. That would be ridiculous, as he could sit there and squirm for a half an hour, all the while becoming more disruptive, with a group of policemen holding him down. It would be a waste of time for someone who is obviously uncooperative.

They are going to take the quick route into persuading someone in custody to cooperate with them. The quickest and least physically harmful way being a taser. He was given plenty of warning before he was tasered and he knew what was coming if he did not cooperate.

Also, I don't see how someone saying that restraint and the eventual use of a taser in this case was necessary is being masochistic. It is regrettable that it sometimes has to come to such violence, but it is unavoidable that it does come to that once in a while. To say that anyone who can understand the actions of the police is only doing so because they derive some sort of gratification from the violence is ignorant.

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Anyway, i'll receed and let you continue in saying the kid deserved it, blabla. Oh and saying "Lolz good he's gone" or some other snide comment after me leaving shows a ton of immaturity and disrespect on your part.

Really hanging on to your martyrdom today, aren't you? Chastising everyone here for something that has not happened? I can't speak for everyone else, but I have shown you, personally, no disrespect and have argued based on my views of this issue.

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Because you took a debate and turned it into a "I don't agree with you, so i'm going to make this thread now about you and what you say!" Which that's what has happened here. It should have been on the issue, but of course people take one guy's opinion and makes that the focus instead. Bad form, gamingforce. Bad form

What else are we supposed to do in one of these threads, if not debate the subject at hand and arguing our opposing viewpoints? This thread is not about me and it is not about you. Your (along with mine and everyone elses) opinion on this issue along with getting facts pertinent to said issue is the point of this thread. Is that not what you and I are currently discussing?

What I think is bad form is you taking a debate on two opposing viewpoints of this issue, making it personal and insulting everyone here. Once I stop commenting on your opinions on the issue and start calling you fuck boy, then you can say it is personal.