Parental rights denied by 9th Circuit Court

Although this decision was made in 11/05, I think it merits discussion. The 9the Circuit Court determined that parents have to exclusive constitutional right to determine what their children are taught regarding sexual matters. The court ruled that the parents rights end at the school door. The case revolves around a sex survey given to elementary school kids asking questions of a deeply personal and sexual manner. (How often do you touch yorself, etc.). The parents objected, saying they should determine what their kids are exposed to regarding sexuality.

Sound to me like an open door for any pro gay, pro abortion, etc. agenda that the schools feel are proper and politocally correct. It would seem to me like a violation of the parents first amendment right to practice the religion of their choice. The court held that parents still have to choice as to where to send their kids to school, but with the liberal fight against vouchers, how many parents really have this choice?

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...s&ct=clnk&cd=7

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pro gay, pro abortion, etc. agenda

Can we please ban the word, agenda, from Political Palace? Forever, ever, and ever?

Or a quota system unusable by Wesker.

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It would seem to me like a violation of the parents first amendment right to practice the religion of their choice.

What does the parents' religion have to do with a sexually aware survey?

Originally Posted by Wesker

Sound to me like an open door for any pro gay, pro abortion, etc. agenda that the schools feel are proper and politocally correct. It would seem to me like a violation of the parents first amendment right to practice the religion of their choice. The court held that parents still have to choice as to where to send their kids to school, but with the liberal fight against vouchers, how many parents really have this choice?

Who's to say the parents know best? If parents wish to affect the education of their own child in public school, they are also affecting the education of all kids in that school. If parents want their kids to learn about something in a manner they deem apporpriate, they should teach it to their children themselves. And that, of course, is allowed. What is not allowed (and upheld by this court) is parents spreading their own agenda over all kids instead of just their own.

Originally Posted by Taterdemalion

Who's to say the parents know best? If parents wish to affect the education of their own child in public school, they are also affecting the education of all kids in that school. If parents want their kids to learn about something in a manner they deem apporpriate, they should teach it to their children themselves. And that, of course, is allowed. What is not allowed (and upheld by this court) is parents spreading their own agenda over all kids instead of just their own.

Yup and last time I was in school they literally give all kids a slip that basically says, "We're having sexual education on ____ date at ____ time if you do or don't want your child to attend check the appropriate box and sign."

If this is the case I'm thinking of, these were SECOND GRADERS, people - not high schoolers. The parents absolutely should have a say over *if* (I was going to say "what", but that is totally out of the realm of rational thinking) their seven-year-olds are exposed to with regard to sex, religion, peanut butter vs. peanut butter & jelly, whether or not the sky is blue, or any other subject imaginable.

Are you people crazy?

Alice, did you not read, it's the upholding of public schools to teach sexual education regardless of what so called "PTAs" think of it. I don't know if you noticed but many parent organizations have encouraged the stripping of evolutionary teachings as well as sex-ed, all for their own religious purposes. It's upsetting to see that kids are missing out on their education because someone else's parents decided no child should be able to learn it.

Like I said, I thought this was referring to the case (in New Hampshire or Connecticut or one of those states) where second-graders were given a questionnaire regarding masturbation, homosexuality, etc. without parental consent.

It seems so but I don't believe a survey would hurt them. If they don't know certain terms, they probably shouldn't be informed yet.

Personally I'd like them to give this to my town's middle school and see just what those little horny bastards have been up to.

Originally Posted by Devo

Yup and last time I was in school they literally give all kids a slip that basically says, "We're having sexual education on ____ date at ____ time if you do or don't want your child to attend check the appropriate box and sign."

Actually, when I was in fifth grade, they DID do that. >_>

We literally had to get a permission slip signed to take a sex ed/health class. It was taught by the lesbian gym teacher. No joke.

And I don't have a problem with this letter (in the article...thing)

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The Palmdale School District is asking your support in participating in
a district-wide study of our first, third and fifth grade children. The study will be a part of a collaborative effort with The California School of Pro-
fessional Psychology — CSPP/ Alliant International University, Chil-
dren’s Bureau of Southern California and the Palmdale School District.

The goal of this assessment is to establish a community baseline mea-
sure of children’s exposure to early trauma (for example, violence). We
will identify internal behaviors such as anxiety and depression and exter-
nal behaviors such as aggression and verbal abuse. As a result, we will be
designing a district wide intervention program to help children reduce
these barriers to learning, which students can participate in. Please read
this consent letter and if you agree, please sign and send it back to your
school’s principal no later than December 20, 2001.

Personally, I would do the homework on the CSPP and be sure they're legit. (which I am sure they are.)

I would sign that. I imagine they're not idiotic and they'll hold themselves in good taste with administering an evaluation. This is coming from a person who doesn't trust doctors.

I am sure they're not going to ask first graders anything terribly graphic - its more than likely geared towards a first grader's mind. These are psychologists. Not pedophiles. They're doing your community a service.

Considering California has a crapload of pedophiles, that's probably the purpose of this survery.

Oh looks like it is, maybe the parents are more worried that there might be this question:

x) have any of the above actions involved either of your parents?

Originally Posted by Devo

It seems so but I don't believe a survey would hurt them. If they don't know certain terms, they probably shouldn't be informed yet.

maybe it's just me but it seems kids of younger and younger age learn of these things and swearing and such.

I don't really get the POINT of the survey to start with - what was it's purpose being there in the first place? Or someone along the school board just curious what those little children do these days during their boutifull 'free times'? If they're going to teach sexuality just teach it for goodness sake, the kids are there to learn and not to conclude a survey on how often they touch themselves.

EDIT: OK. But still, throwing a survey like this at them is just strange to begin with. If they think they need to get covered over this sexuality thing a bit earlier or more in detail or on other topics as well, I think the media reveals this very well on violent acts on younger youth as well as all that's up on the news: couldn't they get the concenus off of that or they need some hard proof that they need to change the course or something?

Sass just posted within her reply the purpose:

Quote:

The Palmdale School District is asking your support in participating in
a district-wide study of our first, third and fifth grade children. The study will be a part of a collaborative effort with The California School of Pro-
fessional Psychology — CSPP/ Alliant International University, Chil-
dren’s Bureau of Southern California and the Palmdale School District.

The goal of this assessment is to establish a community baseline mea-
sure of children’s exposure to early trauma (for example, violence). We
will identify internal behaviors such as anxiety and depression and exter-
nal behaviors such as aggression and verbal abuse. As a result, we will be
designing a district wide intervention program to help children reduce
these barriers to learning, which students can participate in. Please read
this consent letter and if you agree, please sign and send it back to your
school’s principal no later than December 20, 2001.

What I don't understand is if they did send this letter what were the parents protesting about? Other kids?

After carefully reading all of this document, theres really absolutely NOTHING these parents could get upset about.

Quote:

The children were asked to rate the following activities, among others, on a scale from “never” to “almost all the time”: “Bad dreams or night-
mares,” “Feeling dizzy,” “Wanting to yell at people,” “Wanting to hurt other people,” “Trying not to have feelings,” “Can’t stop thinking about something bad that happened to me,” and “Wanting to kill myself.” Ten of those questions were about sexual subjects.

The second part of the survey is
labeled “Bialer-Cromwell LC Scale (Modified).”

These questions concentrate on the child subject’s perception of other
people and the external world. The third part follows the same
format as Bialer-Cromwell, but the questions focus upon:

8. Touching my private parts too much
17. Thinking about having sex
22. Thinking about touching other people’s private parts
23. Thinking about sex when I don’t want to
26. Washing myself because I feel dirty on the inside
34. Not trusting people because they might want sex
40. Getting scared or upset when I think about sex
44. Having sex feelings in my body
47. Can’t stop thinking about sex
54. Getting upset when people talk about sex

These seem like valid questions to me. I don't know.

These are still 1st-5th grade kids we're talking about....I mean I can see maybe starting the questionare (with the sex-related questions) maybe 5th and up....but not 1st-4th graders. I mean I have nothing against sex-ed or anything....it's just that most 1st and 2nd (and maybe 3rd graders) don't know where babies come from let alone what 'sex' or 'masterbation/"touching myself"' mean. At least that's the way it was when I was in school (I became home schooled after 4th grade). But then again....kids are maturing sooner and sooner now adays....so who knows....the kids in those grades probaly DO know where babies come from and the meaning of 'sex' :/ .....

I'm not sure what the survey intends to accomplish when the subjects don't even have a base understanding of sex. I mean, when you get into 4th and 5th Grade you're gonna have some kids "in the know" who get boners looking at swimsuit calendars, but 1st Graders?

In either case, if parents don't like it, they can send their kids to private school. It's a free country.

Originally Posted by Outlaw

These are still 1st-5th grade kids we're talking about....I mean I can see maybe starting the questionare (with the sex-related questions) maybe 5th and up....but not 1st-4th graders. I mean I have nothing against sex-ed or anything....it's just that most 1st and 2nd (and maybe 3rd graders) don't know where babies come from let alone what 'sex' or 'masterbation/"touching myself"' mean. At least that's the way it was when I was in school (I became home schooled after 4th grade). But then again....kids are maturing sooner and sooner now adays....so who knows....the kids in those grades probaly DO know where babies come from and the meaning of 'sex' :/ .....

Not maturing earlier, just being exposed to things earlier. If you mean maturing like aging, it's quite true. Generations after my own (I'm 19 now) have literally been eating food pumped with hormones, it's only a matter of time before kids it puberty a lot sooner.

Double Post:

Quote:

The goal of this assessment is to establish a community baseline mea-
sure of children’s exposure to early trauma (for example, violence). We
will identify internal behaviors such as anxiety and depression and exter-
nal behaviors such as aggression and verbal abuse. As a result, we will be
designing a district wide intervention program to help children reduce
these barriers to learning, which students can participate in. Please read
this consent letter and if you agree, please sign and send it back to your
school’s principal no later than December 20, 2001

Seems like it's actually a study on abuse and it's effects on learning more than a sex study.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

I'm not sure what the survey intends to accomplish when the subjects don't even have a base understanding of sex. I mean, when you get into 4th and 5th Grade you're gonna have some kids "in the know" who get boners looking at swimsuit calendars, but 1st Graders?

I considered that, but wrote it off as just a necessity to get scientifically acceptable statistics. Gonna need those for graphs.

"What Is Sex' has garnered seventy percent of the results, professor."

"GOOD! GOOD! Feed it to the machine!"

All I know is that I certainly wouldn't want my 7 year old asking me what sex was all of a sudden. Aren't I supposed to have time to prepare for these things?

Originally Posted by Outlaw

it's just that most 1st and 2nd (and maybe 3rd graders) don't know where babies come from let alone what 'sex' or 'masterbation/"touching myself"' mean.

Most first and second graders do know roughly where babies come from. Well, pretty roughly. The way my folks explained it, I thought parents made soup from which the baby emerged.

After reading the questions, I don't object. It's like how the doctor tells you that you shouldn't let anyone touch you in your bathing suit area.