The Immigration Protests

First i would like to dive into my background though for a second, First im of a truly mixed background ( ethnically) My Father is of Mexican-Mestizo extraction where my mother had parents who were English/Dutch - And Irish/Cherokee(50%) - so I come from a diverse background More American than most being that i have more than a quater native american blood, and More american in the way that US here in America of mixed ethnicities represent what the future will look like ( that is once MTV has properly penetrated every society on earth).
Anyways on to the point WATTS - your assumptions are just that assumptions because it is a known fact that within a unemployment Rate % that u will always have a amount of people that wont work even if u gave them a job for $20 D/H - and the Rate of those is about half - so if u have 8 million unemployed u can Estimate from Research that has been done that 4 million wouldnt work if they where given a job. Also Dealing with the Flags me being of Latino decent i understand this - Latins like to display the country they came from, ive worked with illegals and have many friends who are latin imigrants including even my own family who mostly only speaks spanish, Thing is the hispanic culture is different and in this culture the country of their birth or Parents birth means alot. I dont take the flags being displayed as dissing america. The country is always important, I look Kinda white so people hear me talk spanish First Question most ask - What country are u from? Although i dont really see the relevance and importance in this, I find Ethnicity to be more of interest to me that Nationality.
Also the comment made a while back About Illegals Defrauding our nation by not paying taxes - Dont u think it is This country Defrauding the world by not using the greater part of our wealth to Educate Say People in Mexico So they would know how to build up their own country instead of immigrate here, Or how bout Fight Corruption in these countries, instead of setting up sweat shops to take advantage of poor people like our corporations do.
Bottom line - I think its insane that congress would even propose a bill to make illegal immigration a Felony. Lets see A person wants to work and make his familys life better than what they can get in thier own country so HEY lets make Them Felons and lock them in prison, Sound pretty fair to me. And wether or not u like it this country was founded on Illegal Immigration and Destruction that caused the death of millions of My kin ( which was caused by the other half of my blood). I personally see nothing wrong with someone trying to improve their situation - and if Them doing this Means crossing a Border - then do U think they would Care What you or I have to say - i know i wouldnt sit around in a corrupt country and watch my children go without Proper education and stuff when i could cross a simple border and make thier lives 100 times better. Although this is not the intention of all illegals - The majority of the hispanic illegals i know ( i know lots and have some in Family) are trying to do this.

While I'm of the belief that everything that you just said is nothing more than the rantings of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, I couldn't let this statement pass:

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And wether or not u like it this country was founded on Illegal Immigration

How was the United States founded on illegal immigration? Anyone who answers this needs to think over their answer very carefully or else look like a damned idiot.

Well, the Pilgrims, when they landed and founded Plymouth Colony, they did so without a valid charter, duly authorized by all the proper authorities, which made them illegal immigrants, if you want to argue it that way. Their colony was effectively there for the taking if anyone with a legitimate colonial charter wanted to annex it, which Massachusetts Bay Colony did in the mid 18th century.

The founding of Plymouth Colony, while full of intersting historical tidbits, doesn't equate to the founding of the United States, however.

Thats ok its your opinion Night Phoenix to belive that. But Simply i dont think some old rich men on Capitol Hill have the right to Make Criminals, Felon status criminals at that for people Trying to better their lives. DO You? As i said i have alot of dealings with people who are of illegal status, Are they not Humans - Because they didnt have the privalage of being born HERE? Most i have met are honest and some of my best friends, work very hard, and have to deal with their children hating them for being Wetbacks or Illegals ( who are looked down upon) I had plenty of Friends like this and had this experience first hand growing up in a Strawberry Town in Central Cali. Alot of these peoples Children go on to college and accomplish things - should we strip them of this because thier parents came over a "BORDER" illegally? I only Wish my Parents worked as hard as some of these illegals do for thier children, and thier familys future.

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Most Americans will not clean shit for $6. Illegals will. Therefore illegals profit.

That's pretty damned hilarious considering that I had a job making $5.15/hr working at a fast food place. My duty was to clean up nasty shit (grease traps included) and sweat my ass off all day, running around and scrambling to get things done.
Believe me when I say that cutting the fucking grass is ALOT easier than working in a fast food kitchen. Hell, in the summer time, the guy who got to go outside and cut the lawn (since the owner never hired anyone) was the luckiest sonuvabitch of that day.

I wonder...how do they handle construction in northern states like Wisconsin or Minnesota? I highly doubt they have a large population of illegal immigrants up there, but I'm sure they manage just fine. I'm also pretty sure that they have landscaping companies up there that charge the same with American workers as the landscapers in the south with immigrant workers.

I just want to set the record straight though. I have no problem whatsoever with immigrants. My grandparents were immigrants after all. The thing that bothers me, though, is that these border hopping douche bags are coming into this nation and being allowed to stay here without having to be burdened with some little hassle called "citizenship".
I mean, is it really that hard to apply and get a green card?

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But Simply i dont think some old rich men on Capitol Hill have the right to Make Criminals, Felon status criminals at that for people Trying to better their lives. DO You?

Not only do I think they have the right, I think they have the obligation. No matter what justification you can come up with, these people are breaking the law. This makes them criminals. The United States is a nation based on the rule of law and if you willingly let people disregard the law, for whatever reason, then the very foundation of this nation is meaningless.

What is at issue here isn't whether or not these people work hard or the fact that they are Mexican or whatever; the issue at hand is that these people are breaking the laws of the United States. To give these people a pass or amnesty is encouraging others to blatantly disregard the laws of the United States.

What you people don't understand is that legal immigration is fucking impossible to manage. There are caps of like 30,000 people per year, and the waiting time is approximately 15 or so years.

That's fucking ridiculous. What's the point of following a law an unjust law? When it comes to making the decision: "should I go to the United States illegally, or starve?"

In the face of starvation laws are of little importance.

Furthermore, these people are not breaking laws of the United States of America right NOW. If they are employed, their employers are. They may have broken American laws in the past by illegally trespassing the borders, but that is not relevant.

Originally Posted by gukarma

They may have broken American laws in the past by illegally trespassing the borders, but that is not relevant.

I fail to see why illegal immigrants breaking the laws of the United States by entering the country illegally is not relavent.

I cee your point Night Phoenix , about breaking the laws, of the United States, Just that i think instead of focusing on criminalizing people who wish to come here , it should be made easier for people to come and work here and provide for thier families, and educate thier children, im not saying give them full citezenship but i cee nothing wrong with someone wanting to come work - NOW on the other hand i do see stuff wrong with MS13 and 18th STreet Gang members coming over and commiting crimes, and making life uneasy - I have had to deal with these MS13 members when i was younger(there is quite a few here in the DC metro Area), Luckly unless your affiliated with other gangs they usually leave u alone - but they are a problem none the less, I recall my Friend who was Puerto Rican From New York Actually had to leave school and be sent back to NEW York because there was rumors they would kill him if he went back to school, so the principal told him he would have to leave, and his
sis decided to send him back to new york.

Originally Posted by gukarma

What you people don't understand is that legal immigration is fucking impossible to manage. There are caps of like 30,000 people per year, and the waiting time is approximately 15 or so years.

That's fucking ridiculous. What's the point of following a law an unjust law? When it comes to making the decision: "should I go to the United States illegally, or starve?"

In the face of starvation laws are of little importance.

Furthermore, these people are not breaking laws of the United States of America right NOW. If they are employed, their employers are. They may have broken American laws in the past by illegally trespassing the borders, but that is not relevant.

That is one of the most blatently false statements that I have heard/read in a while. My family is from Burkina Faso, and we immigrated to the US legally (as permanent residents with green cards) in 2000. This year we applied for citizenship. The waiting line is not 15 years as you seem to state with authority. We applied for and recieved our citizenship within the year. To state that illegal immigration is justified because of the backlog in the system is not only factually wrong, it breaks every legal tradition that the US has been following since its inception, namely the rule of law. You don't have the right to break any law on the books just because you don't agree with it. You follow it because it is the law. Period. Illegal immigrants broke the law, plain and simple, and should not be rewarded for their crime. I can't speak for other legal immigrants, but it makes me extremely angry to see these illegals walking around as if they're entitled to citizenship. Citizenship is a privelege, not a right, and for those who have not earned that right (by breaking the law to enter the country) to claim that they should be granted it is just absurd.

/rant

What do you consider more important Your Humanity or Your AMerican Citizenship?
Me personally my Humanity and connection with all people I dont feel better because im a American.

Originally Posted by David4516

I feel that the boarder is a HUGE security risk. I can't believe that we're fighting a "war on terror" when our boarders are wide open. Some SOB can just walk right in from Canada or Mexico carrying a suit-case nuke.

Just like any SOB from almost anywhere in the United States can get out a suitcase nuke and blow us all up.
Violence isn't limited to foreigners.

Originally Posted by god

That is one of the most blatently false statements that I have heard/read in a while. My family is from Burkina Faso, and we immigrated to the US legally (as permanent residents with green cards) in 2000. This year we applied for citizenship. The waiting line is not 15 years as you seem to state with authority. We applied for and recieved our citizenship within the year. To state that illegal immigration is justified because of the backlog in the system is not only factually wrong, it breaks every legal tradition that the US has been following since its inception, namely the rule of law. You don't have the right to break any law on the books just because you don't agree with it. You follow it because it is the law. Period. Illegal immigrants broke the law, plain and simple, and should not be rewarded for their crime. I can't speak for other legal immigrants, but it makes me extremely angry to see these illegals walking around as if they're entitled to citizenship. Citizenship is a privelege, not a right, and for those who have not earned that right (by breaking the law to enter the country) to claim that they should be granted it is just absurd.

/rant

I am not talking about citizenship (for which the most common way to apply takes 7 years, a sponsor, and a couple of tests of proficiency of both the language and american history). I am talking about LEAVING your country in the most common of ways to enter the US - through and i485. There is a cap (of either 33,000 or 55,000 if you are a special worker) per year for that, and the current waiting time in line is beyond a decade.

Also, the point is that there is no sense in following a ridiculous law. If you did, kudos to you. Some people prefer justice, though.

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon

I fail to see why illegal immigrants breaking the laws of the United States by entering the country illegally is not relavent.

It is not relevant in a sense that criminalizes them, like night phoenix puts it. Do you want to make illegal immigrants felons?

In what sense is the law ridiculous. I think you have to support your assertion.

Originally Posted by gukarma

I am not talking about citizenship (for which the most common way to apply takes 7 years, a sponsor, and a couple of tests of proficiency of both the language and american history). I am talking about LEAVING your country in the most common of ways to enter the US - through and i485. There is a cap (of either 33,000 or 55,000 if you are a special worker) per year for that, and the current waiting time in line is beyond a decade.

Although it's clear that you at least sort-of know what you're talking about, you're still oversimplifying the issue. If you can demonstrate a need for immigration: i.e. political refugee, you can get into the USA much quicker and easier, often bypassng the cap. Also the caps are not as simple as 33,000. There are limits per country, profession, and other factors.

Also, if you didn't realize, there is a limit of people we can have in this country. We can't just open our borders and let every person unhappy with their country into ours. That's highly impractical considering we have limited resources and land. These immigrants are moving always into urban centers since they rarely have skills useful outside of those. Our urban centers are already crowded, polluted, and underfinanced as fuck.

I'm of the opinion that the Mexicans should just fix their country instead of fleeing like a bunch of rats escaping a sinking ship. The ship is, after all, not sinking. Although NAFTA screwed the farmers, it gave shitloads of OTHER opportunities.

This is what you miss gukarma. Those illegals have no right to be here, they have no right to make a living here, they have no right to use our social services, they have no right drain our economy by sending money to mexico, and they are criminals. Period.

So gukarma, are you pro-criminal? You want all those drugs to keep flowing through our boarder? Do you want those people to keep coming here so that hard working Americans wages are deflated?

Originally Posted by Gumby

This is what you miss gukarma. Those illegals have no right to be here, they have no right to make a living here, they have no right to use our social services, they have no right drain our economy by sending money to mexico, and they are criminals. Period.

I'm more or less with you until the 'drain our economy by sending money to Mexico' thing. I agree they haven't the right to do anything there as they are illegally present. But there's nothing wrong with sending money out of country if you are legally landed.

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So gukarma, are you pro-criminal?

Ever heard of an ad-hominem?

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Although it's clear that you at least sort-of know what you're talking about, you're still oversimplifying the issue. If you can demonstrate a need for immigration: i.e. political refugee, you can get into the USA much quicker and easier, often bypassng the cap. Also the caps are not as simple as 33,000. There are limits per country, profession, and other factors.

Also, if you didn't realize, there is a limit of people we can have in this country. We can't just open our borders and let every person unhappy with their country into ours. That's highly impractical considering we have limited resources and land. These immigrants are moving always into urban centers since they rarely have skills useful outside of those. Our urban centers are already crowded, polluted, and underfinanced as fuck.

I'm of the opinion that the Mexicans should just fix their country instead of fleeing like a bunch of rats escaping a sinking ship. The ship is, after all, not sinking. Although NAFTA screwed the farmers, it gave shitloads of OTHER opportunities.

Our economy doesn't seem to be under incredible strain simply because of immigration; saying that would be making immigration an escape goat. We've had pretty fucking uncontrolable immigration up to now, and things seem to be doing well.

Think about it this way: if the immigrants that are here now were forced to pay taxes, and forced to legalize themselves, and there was much stricter border security, and a more lenient manner of immigration into the country NOW, everything would be perfect. That's what I am arguing for. Do you agree with me?

PUG1911: I agree there is nothing wrong with people who are here legally sending money outside of the United States, they have that right. HOWEVER illegals do not have that right. Ever wonder why the United States is the single largest income for Mexicans, in Mexico?

gukarma: No I don't agree, everyone who is here illegally should not get citizenship nor a green card. You are still suggesting the rewarding of criminals.

I suggest this. A national ID card as the solution. Make it so that only citizens and people who are legally here can get these (include what ever information i.e. retina scans so that these cards can not be faked), then require that in order to work you have to have one of these cards and any employer caught hiring people with out these cards will be fined so heavily their arshe might never recover. You then don't need to move a single illegal; they will leave on their own because there is no work for them.