The Immigration Protests

I'm sure you've all seen the huge protests by immigrants against the propsed law changes regarding illegal immigration. The one thing that stood out to me the most was the abundance of Mexican flags carried by the protestors. I think this will have a negative effect for their casue. I know it pissed me off. These people disregard U.S. laws and enter the country and the carrying of Mexican flags shows where their true allegiance lies. They're in the U.S. now, if Mexico is so damn important in their hearts that they carry Mexican flags instead of American flags, then go the hell back to that shit hole of a country you left.

So, what do you think of the protests? The proposed law making illegal entry a felony? ( I'm in favor of it). The argument that the U.S. is a country of immigrants is a bogus one, because the U.S. is a country of LEGAL immigrants, not invaders who disregard the laws of the land. Remember, most who enter illegally also work illegally, drive without licenses and insurance and disregard whatever other laws that don't suit them.

The entire argument of the pro-illegal immigration side boils down to that because these people are poor, not white, and do low-wage jobs that the law doesn't apply to them. Anyone who suggests otherwise is portrayed at the very least as a racist.

Everytime I read a newspaper paper article or watch a TV program on the subject, the pro-illegal immigration side never wants to acknowledge the fact that these people are breaking the law. What it all suggests to me is that they only want one thing - a completely open border with no restrictions on anyone who crosses in any way, shape, or form.

Never before have I seen such blatant disregard of the laws of this nation by its own citizens who sit here and defend criminals.

But hey, that's the left for you.

I feel that the boarder is a HUGE security risk. I can't believe that we're fighting a "war on terror" when our boarders are wide open. Some SOB can just walk right in from Canada or Mexico carrying a suit-case nuke.

I think we need some strict laws, and I think they need to be enforced (unlike alot of our laws). The millitary should put mines or snipers or something on the boarder to keep out those who would enter illegally...

Originally Posted by Wesker

So, what do you think of the protests? The proposed law making illegal entry a felony? ( I'm in favor of it). The argument that the U.S. is a country of immigrants is a bogus one, because the U.S. is a country of LEGAL immigrants, not invaders who disregard the laws of the land. Remember, most who enter illegally also work illegally, drive without licenses and insurance and disregard whatever other laws that don't suit them.

Aren't most of the protests centered around Bush's "guest worker" plan? That basically make's illegal immigration legal just as long as the immigrants are working for companies paying them sub-minimum wage wages.

I think there's two immigration bills floating out there. I don't think they're protesting making "illegal entry" illegal.... because that's uhh kinda redundant and pointless. I figure that whatever the bill you're talking about is the smokescreen for Bush's guest worker bill.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

The entire argument of the pro-illegal immigration side boils down to that because these people are poor, not white, and do low-wage jobs that the law doesn't apply to them. Anyone who suggests otherwise is portrayed at the very least as a racist.

Everytime I read a newspaper paper article or watch a TV program on the subject, the pro-illegal immigration side never wants to acknowledge the fact that these people are breaking the law. What it all suggests to me is that they only want one thing - a completely open border with no restrictions on anyone who crosses in any way, shape, or form.

Never before have I seen such blatant disregard of the laws of this nation by its own citizens who sit here and defend criminals.

But hey, that's the left for you.

You make lefties like me cry.

Seriously, I can sorta see why they wanna get outta Mexico and into the US, but the problem is this: a) They're essentially cutting in line, b) They provide a minimal benefit (at best) to our economy, c) they pay virtually no taxes outside of SSI tax (which the employers are required to take out of a paycheck), and d) they undercut wages from either citizens or legal immigrants.

A solution, however... I dunno. It's a gigantic problem. Obviously, we need better border security to stop more illegal immigration (or at least impede it), but we have 10-20 million already in here. And dealing with THOSE people is really at the heart of the issue.

EDIT: Oh, and IIRC Watts, the bill they're protesting is one that basically criminalizes employment of illegal aliens (yay, in my opinion), and also criminalizes helping them (which I'm not so happy about). The other one (I think it's a Kennedy-Specter bill, but I'm not sure) includes a guest worker program.

Originally Posted by Murdercrow

EDIT: Oh, and IIRC Watts, the bill they're protesting is one that basically criminalizes employment of illegal aliens (yay, in my opinion), and also criminalizes helping them (which I'm not so happy about). The other one (I think it's a Kennedy-Specter bill, but I'm not sure) includes a guest worker program.

Kennedy-Specter bill eh? Why in the world would Democrats want to turn on their union supporters.... again? Brilliant. Then again, the Democrats didn't get in their current situation without being kind of dumb. I feel sorry for people that still support the Democrats.

I'm actually not sure that it criminalizes illegal immigration. I'm pretty sure that it calls for tighter border security, and a guest worker program, but that's all I'm sure of.

The problem with the Guest Worker Program bill is that it provides a path to citizenship for illegals currently in the country. Essentially granting them Amnesty.

The "Good Samaritan" legislation is essentially moot, because the law only applies to people that you can effectively prove where knowingly aiding an illegal alien. If you know that Manuel jumped the border and is waiting for a roof construction gig, and you give him food and shelter instead of reporting him to the INS, that's essentially aiding and abetting.

One thing I love about all of this, is the increased use of the term "undocumented workers." Last I remember, an undocumented worker would have been somebody who wasn't paying taxes. Not that people making below minimum wage would actually be paying any taxes outside of Sales, but the point still stands that any way you look at it, they're blatantly breaking the law.

This issue is precisely why I argue that veering too far in either direction is dangerous, because the far left can come up with some really apeshit ideas too.

This issue essentially boils down to whether illegal immigrants should be allowed to break the law, and I'm really surprised the right is not taking off the kid gloves and calling it exactly what it is. There is a time and place for realpolitik, but this isn't it. You only resort to making deals with the devil when you cannot realistically enforce the laws as printed - giving sterile needles to drug addicts to at least try to curb the spread of HIV, for example.

Here, we can enforce our immigration laws in an effective manner. There is certainly no need for compromise, if the government would just take the proper steps to enforce the law. I just don't know that anybody is offering an effective solution. Glorified amnesty sure as hell isn't the solution, but increasing the border patrol and building a big wall doesn't seem like much of a solution. Are they giving INS more manpower to ship back the illegals that inevitiably sneak through, and those that are already here?

No, the real solution is to ensure there are no jobs for Mexicans. That means coming down on Wal-Mart, construction companies, and farms with the Hammer of God. Get INS to drop by Wal-Mart regularly, and every time they catch a guy without a green card working there, giant ass fuck fine for his employer. That's cutting off the head of the snake, but unfortunately it'll never happen under a Republican congress.

It won't happen during a Democratic Congress either. Let's be intellectually honest here.

Probably won't happen under any Congress unless hell freezes over and we get a non-partisan moderate majority. But that tends to be true of most sensible legislation.

It's nice to see this something that most of us regardless of general political affiliation actually agree on for once. It makes no sense whatsoever implement the guest worker program as it would just encourage more people coming over knowing they could get away with it. And it makes even less sense to not nail company's that utilize illegal workers to straight to the fucking ground. Because really everyone's getting fucked if it's allowed.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

Never before have I seen such blatant disregard of the laws of this nation by its own citizens who sit here and defend criminals.

But hey, that's the left for you.

You have such a deep hatred for the world. What are you majoring in in college?

It is already a misdemeanor to cross the border illegaly.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

One thing I love about all of this, is the increased use of the term "undocumented workers." Last I remember, an undocumented worker would have been somebody who wasn't paying taxes. Not that people making below minimum wage would actually be paying any taxes outside of Sales, but the point still stands that any way you look at it, they're blatantly breaking the law.

Yes, these people are breaking the law, and they are illegal in the country, but it's not because they want to. I came to the country legally, and only those who have tried to go through the process know how difficult it is. Under regular law if you are not deemed "brilliant" or "extremely talented" it takes an excess of 7-10 years to get approved to come to the country. It's crazy! This country is made of immigrants.

You know, this same debate must have happened inumerous times in American History. It must once have been aimed towars the Irish, the Italians, and everyone else in the mix.

People have an inherent right to emigrate to America, that's the point of the country!

It's not beside the point that a lot of the jobs that immigrants fill Americans won't do.

Want to clean up bathrooms for $8.00? No? Well, an immigrant does, so he has a job, and you don't. It's capitalism, a person who can offer a product (in this case labor) for less will profit.

Originally Posted by gukarma

People have an inherent right to emigrate to America, that's the point of the country!

LEGALLY!..The European immigrants came here legally. They had to pass thorugh a strict screening process. those who were criminals or had diseases were turned away. Not so with the porous border. The Eurpopeans melded with the country, made an effort to learn English. They did not protest enmasse holding the flags of the nations that they left, demanding rights that they are not entitltled to.

I think for 8 dollars an hour you'd be surprised how many non immigrants would go for it. It's more that it doesn't even come up as most businesses that can get away with it would rather pay an illegal immigrant to do it for 3 dollars an hour instead. You've obviously never been poor if you think $8.00 an hour is not even worth looking at.

Originally Posted by CetteHamsterLa

I think for 8 dollars an hour you'd be surprised how many non immigrants would go for it. It's more that it doesn't even come up as most businesses that can get away with it would rather pay an illegal immigrant to do it for 3 dollars an hour instead. You've obviously never been poor if you think $8.00 an hour is not even worth looking at.

It depends where you live. In Texas $8.00 goes alot farther than it does in New york.

Originally Posted by Wesker

It depends where you live. In Texas $8.00 goes alot farther than it does in New york.

That's why each state or even region has it's own minimum wage.

The only problem i have with this law is. That this law will allow cops to ask just about anybody for their documantation(unless i was misinformed). Which will bring forth rasicsim. i mean do you think their going to ask a white cacuasion male for his paper work. Another thing is that when their getting deported they will be held in jail cells with criminals.

Originally Posted by Devo

That's why each state or even region has it's own minimum wage.

Fair enough even just in Sante Fe which is roughly an hours drive away from here the minimum is I think $7.50. I was under the impression though that the minimum wage was $5.15 in the majority of places which would put $8.00 and hour at being fairly high up for most unskilled workers.