GUN DEBATE

Are you really so certain he isn't? Who's to say he hadn't been just waiting for an opportunity where he could likely have it called legally justifiable to off someone.

Because it doesn't make sense with what we know about the man, obviously.

Stop grasping at straws here. The simple fact of the matter is this: Joe Horn was found to have reasonably believed that his life was in danger when he shot these two men, therefore no charges were brought against him.

End of discussion really.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

This is obviously false, because if it were true, then it meant that for all intents and purposes, you're saying that Joe Horn is a sociopath who kills people simply because he has the ability to do so.

Oh, I'm sorry, he didn't kill them for no reason.

He killed them as an unfortunate and uncontrollable side effect of his crippling Texan Fuckwad Syndrome. Let us all pray that this poor individual may be cured of his affliction.

If you take the situation and remove the gun from the equation, it basically plays out like this:

Old man sees neighbor's house being robbed, calls police, stays in his house, watches thieves leave on foot. Police arrive, are told which way the thieves exited scene of crime, catch criminals and return stolen items. No one is shot and killed unless absolutely necessary, and if so, said shooting and killing is performed by the police who are legally entrusted with the judgment to know when to shoot and kill people.

Well, to be fair, Texas' Castle Doctrine means that individuals are legally entrusted to shoot and kill people that are on their property illegally.

So the question is really mainly ethical, as legally he really should have been indicted.

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So the question is really mainly ethical, as legally he really should have been indicted.

Based on what? The grand jury interpreted the law far differently than you and many of the other liberal anti-gun nuts in this thread have. Precedent has been set, so throw this 'should have' business out the window.

I just want to remind everyone that the gentleman calling people "nuts" is doing his best to defend the action of fatally shooting nonthreatening petty thieves in the back.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

As a member of the militia, which is everybody depending on how you interpret that, an assault rifle is the best thing you have for use in militia duties short of improvised explosives. The only problem is that the well regulated militia aspect isn't regulated at all and nobody receives any mandatory training in asymmetric warfare and responsible weapons storage.

It's a problematic issue, no doubt. I guess, for me, I just don't see the point in keeping an AK under your pillow. I'm not saying take the guns, I'm just saying there are, you know, limits to what we should believe is actually going to be used for hunting and target practice.

If a kid gets caught with a playboy, we're not really going to believe he was reading the article on the best cigars north of Cuba, are we?

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just want to remind everyone that the gentleman calling people "nuts" is doing his best to defend the action of fatally shooting nonthreatening petty thieves in the back.

The action needs no defense; it's been defended and upheld.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

The action needs no defense; it's been defended and upheld.

The law isn't always correct, NP. I can't believe that someone with your belief system concerning keeping an armed militia just in case the government truly goes too far would be so upset about people daring to question the validity of a decision.

You can question it, but at the end of the day -- the grand jury determined that this guy didn't do anything worthy of prosecution, which in my book is just fine. If they had decided that he did in fact needed to be prosecuted, I would've been cool with that, too.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

You can question it, but at the end of the day -- the grand jury determined that this guy didn't do anything worthy of prosecution, which in my book is just fine. If they had decided that he did in fact needed to be prosecuted, I would've been cool with that, too.

No, I get that you're a real the law is the law guy. I grasp that. I'm just curious as to why it seems to upset you so much when people question that. Is it just a matter of not wanting people to think they know better than the experts? Because I can get behind that.

I just look at it like - the grand jury didn't indict him, therefore it's not that big of a deal to me anymore. In general principle, would I have done the same thing he did? Probably not, but I do think the guy had a reasonable belief that he was in some sort of danger and he went and did work. The grand jury felt the same way and to me that's the end of it. You wanna change the law after the fact? We have a process for that, but as it stands right now, it doesn't bother me that the guy wasn't prosecuted nor do I see it as an argument against civillian gun ownership.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

In general principle, would I have done the same thing he did? Probably not, but I do think the guy had a reasonable belief that he was in some sort of danger and he went and did work.

Why, NP, I always thought you were a cynic. You big softie, you.

This changes everything. I think a group hug is in order.



There is at least one thing that's true, though: trying to judge his frame of mind at the time is pretty much impossible. We can only speculate. And since that job has already been taken, we're just the Monday morning quarterbacks.

Originally Posted by Beard Overflow

It's a problematic issue, no doubt. I guess, for me, I just don't see the point in keeping an AK under your pillow. I'm not saying take the guns, I'm just saying there are, you know, limits to what we should believe is actually going to be used for hunting and target practice.

A lot of people actually do use AR15s and the civilian AK47 for hunting and target practice. You're not going to perforate a deer or anything, but the bullets are gonna be there, and you don't need to worry about keeping a .50 cal pistol in bear country. They're also very useful when hunting cougars.

What's ridiculous are the people who thing they need an assault rifle for self-defense, since that's really overkill, so much to the point in fact where an assault rifle isn't even close to the best choice. Shotguns sound scary without even needing to be fired, and handguns can be easily used indoors. Buckshot and pistol ammo don't have a penetration issue, either, so there's less danger of hurting your neighbors. Plus you can't exactly keep a rifle in a drawer or under a pillow.

If you're that bad a shot that you need an automatic assault rifle to hit anything, perhaps you should think about getting a new hobby.

Not all assault rifles are fully automatic. The civilian AK is modified for semi-auto only in American markets.

I thought all assault rifles that could be legally owned by civilians in the US had to be restricted to semi-auto. Any models that are capable of burst or auto are illegal to own unless the bolt has been cut to prevent firing. Although... civilians can own full auto machine guns (in Arizona anyway) so perhaps it is a state law.