Thoughts on racism

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

They were not minorities at this point, actually. This is a very good example of subtle racism that people don't notice. We think of the Natives as minorities, even at a point in time where there were a hell of a lot more of them than Europeans.

Bad choice of words on my part. They were obliterated into the minorities as we now see today, then shoved onto reservations and left to rot.

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Look, my whole point was that we are putting far too much emphasis on parts of American history that just WERE NOT important enough to justify the amount of time we spend on them. Sure the native americans were cool, it's neat to learn about their customs, government, etc - but that has little bearing on the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, which didn't really exist until the Declaration of Independance, and the events leading up to that separation. There isn't any need to spend an entire month studying native americans in a class about American History. A brief summary is enough.

Same with African History. There isn't any point. African History doesn't really meld at all with US History until the slave trade, thus, there isn't any need to talk about it in an American History class.

Originally Posted by Reznor

I believe that we shouldn't even teach History. Why teach someone about what happened in the past? Don't even say "So the same things don't happen again".

Instead invest the time preparing kids/adolescents for the future, the right decisions, things that PARENTS should be doing but unfortunately aren't.

The big problem in this idea is that YOU CAN'T SEE INTO THE FUTURE.

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

I don't think you can realistically assume this. The master will always feel superior to the slave. The fact is, they found a whole shitload of people that they could take advantage of, and they did it. If Africans had white skin, it wouldn't have made the slightest difference.

I think it would have but since history is contingent in nature and we can't assume anything.

People have enslaved their own for thousands of years and that was largely based on a class structure instead of the race. The one in America was based, at least in it's climax, solely on race and not much else.

The justification for slavery was that whites in general were superior to blacks, that they were a "lesser" breed of people, barely man and therefore, only suitable for being controlled by whites.

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I believe that we shouldn't even teach History. Why teach someone about what happened in the past? Don't even say "So the same things don't happen again".

Instead invest the time preparing kids/adolescents for the future, the right decisions, things that PARENTS should be doing but unfortunately aren't.

Now that would be ridiculous, sarcasm or no. If you have the faintest grasp of knowledge about the past 100 years, you can obviously see a pattern and where current events are heading. Isn't it nice to know the future and to teach kids so as to prevent a recurrence of undesireable events, rather than hope your children grow up to be great citizens?

Originally Posted by a lurker

Oh wait, now I remember you, DarkLink2135. You're the guy way back when that thought cars aren't worshipped by white people in America.

BE CAREFUL, MINORITIES ARE DIFFERENT.

What the FUCK are you talking about.

I never said that.

I don't think that.

That wasn't even my point nor something I ever even touched on. Way to bring in a completely unrelated topic.

And now I remember you. You were the guy that thinks a black guy and a white girl aren't going to have any differences arising from culture.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

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Look, my whole point was that we are putting far too much emphasis on parts of American history that just WERE NOT important enough to justify the amount of time we spend on them. Sure the native americans were cool, it's neat to learn about their customs, government, etc - but that has little bearing on the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, which didn't really exist until the Declaration of Independance, and the events leading up to that separation. There isn't any need to spend an entire month studying native americans in a class about American History. A brief summary is enough.

Same with African History. There isn't any point. African History doesn't really meld at all with US History until the slave trade, thus, there isn't any need to talk about it in an American History class.

You mean pretty much ignore anyone who isn't of European/Caucasian male descent like we currently do.

Yeah, that was Alice who said that.

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You were the guy that thinks a black guy and a white girl aren't going to have any differences arising from culture.

If they grew up in the same culture, they won't. While there are differences between you and a white person from Bulgaria.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

Look, my whole point was that we are putting far too much emphasis on parts of American history that just WERE NOT important enough to justify the amount of time we spend on them. Sure the native americans were cool, it's neat to learn about their customs, government, etc - but that has little bearing on the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, which didn't really exist until the Declaration of Independance, and the events leading up to that separation. There isn't any need to spend an entire month studying native americans in a class about American History. A brief summary is enough.

Same with African History. There isn't any point. African History doesn't really meld at all with US History until the slave trade, thus, there isn't any need to talk about it in an American History class.

The idea in teaching these is that they were precursors to the United States. An important part of understanding the history of any nation is knowing the things that caused that nation to come about. You certainly aren't arguing against learning about European colonial life, but I'll be damned if that wasn't pre 1776.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

African culture is part of American history, yes - but there is no reason for it to be some huge massive focus because a few radicals can't get past the fact that their ancestors of 150+ years ago were enslaved. The development of African culture in Africa is such a far out loose end that there's no point in even covering it in an American History class, where the primary focus should be on AMERICA.

Tell me what you know about African history and culture. I have a lot of time, I can wait.

Originally Posted by Devo

Are you trying to tell me West African culture did not arise in the South, particularly in Lousiana and New Orleans? I guess you are unaware of the voodoo religion.

I'm not talking about West African culture. I'm talking about AFRICAN culture, you dumbfuck. As in, the continent of AFRICA. West African culture has much to do with American History. AFRICAN culture does not have much to do with American History.

I just about didn't include that redundant clause, but I didn't want to give you any reason to start up another bitch storm.

This is the second time in 10 minutes you have failed to actually read through a post.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

kat - There's a simple matter of ratios here which you and several other people are completely missing. American history is LARGELY white-based. European history. African culture is part of American history, yes - but there is no reason for it to be some huge massive focus because a few radicals can't get past the fact that their ancestors of 150+ years ago were enslaved. The development of African culture in Africa is such a far out loose end that there's no point in even covering it in an American History class, where the primary focus should be on AMERICA.

If you want to fucking talk proportions, PROPORTIONALLY men and women are ~50/~50 in this nation. Why are American history textbooks like 99% about men?

Yeah I'm sure men are far more important and do a lot more shit than women.

West Africa is part of Africa as a whole. It's not something entirely seperate like Guinea and New Guinea.

Originally Posted by Devo

You mean pretty much ignore anyone who isn't of European/Caucasian male descent like we currently do.

You have be the most fucking stupid person I have ever met in my life. I'm not even going to give you the dignity of responding to your shit anymore. Way to completely miss the point.

Originally Posted by kat

If you want to fucking talk proportions, PROPORTIONALLY men and women are ~50/~50 in this nation. Why are American history textbooks like 99% about men?

Yeah I'm sure men are far more important and do a lot more shit than women.

Traditionally, men have written textbooks.

Then again, for awhile, any accomplishments that women made probably weren't recorded at all, so they're likely not to be reflected in today's textbooks.

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

The idea in teaching these is that they were precursors to the United States. An important part of understanding the history of any nation is knowing the things that caused that nation to come about. You certainly aren't arguing against learning about European colonial life, but I'll be damned if that wasn't pre 1776.

American Colonial life is part of what caused our nation to come about. It existed HERE. In MAINLAND America. A fairly large part of the whole deal, but that's also something I think we spend a bit too much time studying.

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

I don't think you can realistically assume this. The master will always feel superior to the slave. The fact is, they found a whole shitload of people that they could take advantage of, and they did it. If Africans had white skin, it wouldn't have made the slightest difference.

Well, historically, the effort to differentiate the black slave came later. So one could say the modern understanding of the race differences is rather a result of the use of skin color as a marker in which to keep specific group under control, rather then the other way around. Although not all anthropologist would agree with that assertion. Others believe the root of this concept come earlier.

Originally Posted by kat

The justification for slavery was that whites in general were superior to blacks, that they were a "lesser" breed of people, barely man and therefore, only suitable for being controlled by whites.

No, the justification for slavery was "we need cheap labor". It's just that, since most Africans at that point didn't speak English, and they didn't have guns, you're not going to get any bitching about human rights.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

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Look, my whole point was that we are putting far too much emphasis on parts of American history that just WERE NOT important enough to justify the amount of time we spend on them.

You don't e