"Find Jesus"

Originally Posted by blue

Could be that Jesus is man, and was kind of sent as... Well, a "mediator." It is a lot easier to wrap our minds around the concept of a fellow human than an all-powerful, cosmic God. Maybe?

Edit: I've been thinking about it some more, and... Well, according to the Bible, believing in Jesus as the Savior is the requirement for getting into heaven. I've never heard of anyone believing in Jesus but not "God"; plenty of people, however, believe in God and not Jesus.

I agree...The Bible teaches that sin separates us from God. God is righteous and cannot tolerate sin because he is without sin. (Which is why he seems so angry and judgemental in the old testament.) Jesus was sent as the mediator to take all sin upon himself for those who believe in Him and repent, confessing their sins and making a change in their lives, to bring humankind back into a right relationship with God the Father. Taking their sin.
The reason the emphasis is on Jesus, is because he is the Saviour. The one to make man right before God. He's the mediator.

Gus Gus - Is Jesus Your Pal

Is Jesus your pal?
Do you call out his name,
when your concience is shivering?
Do you need someone too,
just like those people who
find peace in someone's promises?
You sure don't need my promises...
So come and sit on my box,
enjoy the view of this water,
where my lifeboat is sinking.
If you open your eyes,
take a look at this mess,
could you fake your reflection, child?
If you reach out for more,
you'll find nothing but sorrow.
'Cause knowledge is hollow.
And pride is hard to swallow.
So come and sit on my box,
enjoy the view of this water,
where my lifeboat is sinking.

Originally Posted by nuttyturnip

Why do people insist on lumping the Virgin Mary in with God/Jesus/Holy Ghost? Even Catholics don't worship her as a deity, they just think she's helpful to pray for help to.

There are MANY mexican/whatever catholics that almost seem to worship the Virgin Mary.
Even in their cars.

Jesus is unimportant, it is Eris you should be worrying about.

A SERMON ON ETHICS AND LOVE

One day Mal-2 asked the messenger spirit Saint Gulik to approach the Goddess and request Her presence for some desperate advice. Shortly afterwards the radio came on by itself, and an ethereal female Voice said YES?

"O! Eris! Blessed Mother of Man! Queen of Chaos! Daughter of Discord! Concubine of Confusion! O! Exquisite Lady, I beseech You to lift a heavy burden from my heart!"

WHAT BOTHERS YOU, MAL? YOU DON'T SOUND WELL.

"I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are hurting one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies plunder groups of their own people, mothers imprison sons, children perish while brothers war. O, woe."

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THAT, IF IT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?

"But nobody wants it! Everybody hates it."

OH. WELL, THEN STOP.

At which moment She turned herself into an aspirin commercial and left The Polyfather stranded alone with his species.

I think Jesus was a cool cat...Christianity isn't necessarily a good image into which Jesus is superimposed, due to the conflicting interests of Jesus perception of existence vs. that of the establishment. In a way, it seems to me that the real ideal of Jesus has been raped by the institution of Church.

My lord Jesus will always be oppressed on-line.

Let's face facts Christianity gives us so much freedom most people tend to hate on it yet they love freedom. Face it that if he never came that we'd be a supremely oppressed society, women would be supremely oppressed almost slave like, women benefited a lot from the coming of Christ.

If people don't find Jesus or want him at least you can root for him because we are taught compassion and patience and compared to Muhammad and his followers they are going to oppress the world.. they are going to give people the ultimatum one day it's either follow or die. They're already taking Europe over, yet we still squabble about Jesus being a fake and all the Christian affairs that plague us we just don't have the unity. That's why the crusades were a failure.

All our inner cores wants to be forgiven.. we want peace and love we don't want to kill we're considerate and compassionate that's all our lord represents.
Everything he says is what our inner cores want to hear even if you're not even a religious person it just clicks.

It's saddening that Jesus is so great but his church suffers because we as his followers just aren't humble and considerate to our brothers and sisters that we tend to scare off the new. Or the Catastrophes of our lives make him negate him. It's sad that the disobedience or negation of one man can bring down so many.

I pray for this world.

It is now time to close this thread and ban all of its posters.

Originally Posted by nuttyturnip

Why do people insist on lumping the Virgin Mary in with God/Jesus/Holy Ghost? Even Catholics don't worship her as a deity, they just think she's helpful to pray for help to.

I've never understood this either although Catholics DO worship her as a deity in many circles. There is actually a nice little organization called "Sociedad Mariana" (The Society of Marians) where we live and both of my parents are a part of it. It's basically a conclave of people who believe that the Virgin Mary (the Mexican version) was the mother of Christ and as her mother was just as important a figure in the Holy Family as Jesus and God. I try to rationalize it myself, but I never really get anywhere.

Originally Posted by Nahika

My lord Jesus will always be oppressed on-line.

Trust me honey, he was "oppressed" enough when he got nailed to a 2x4, I think we can let some shit slide considering you probably don't fully grasp the meaning of the word "oppressed".

Quote:

Let's face facts Christianity gives us so much freedom most people tend to hate on it yet they love freedom. Face it that if he never came that we'd be a supremely oppressed society, women would be supremely oppressed almost slave like, women benefited a lot from the coming of Christ.

So like... Jesus was the first dude to be tortured for standing up what he believed in? Was he the last? I HAVE LIVED LIES MY ENTIRE LIFE.

Quote:

If people don't find Jesus or want him at least you can root for him because we are taught compassion and patience...

Finally... Something smart out of your thick skull. We CAN root for him because a genuinely good character on paper.

Quote:

...and compared to Muhammad and his followers they are going to oppress the world.. they are going to give people the ultimatum one day it's either follow or die. They're already taking Europe over, yet we still squabble about Jesus being a fake and all the Christian affairs that plague us we just don't have the unity. That's why the crusades were a failure.

... and there you go... Pretty much turning every point you mentioned before this statement into a complete spectacle. "HEY GUYS. JESUS WAS COOL. HE TAUGHT COMPASSION AND FORGIVENESS. BUT FUCK THEM SAND NIGGERS! THEY GON' KILL EVERY MOTHERFUCKER ON THIS PLANET WHILE YOU GUYS DON'T SEE THE WAY OF JESUS. CAN WE NOT ARGUE NOW?"

Quote:

I pray for this world.

I pray that you fix your neurological disorder.

You know, I don't really see myself as the religious type (read: I fucking hate organized religion) but I agree with a lot of the teachings that Christianity (or pretty much any major religion) tries to impose as a form of self-improvement. Respect for self and others, respect of life, brotherhood, tolerance, honor thy family; these are all things that ANY rational human being, regardless of faith structure or religious denomination, can at least agree to as being fundamentally good things. Having said that, I think that is precisely why Jesus is quoted as the de-facto standard for all of these teachings. The man is universally (at least in writing) recognized as having stood firmly for all of these things.

I personally don't find any use for Christianity but I know PLENTY of people who are better people because of it. Because they see in Jesus a role model of how they should model their lives to be better people themselves. I can certainly see the value of that; even if I'm no bible-thumper myself.

Originally Posted by Benjamin

It is now time to close this thread and ban all of its posters.

Hmm... Tempting... I have a couple in mind already. Because IMMA GONNA OPPRESS ME SOME CHRISHUNS.

Hey! what happened to that one post by the guy who pulled out a bunch of scripture dealing with women? I think those passages summed up the Bible's stance on women pretty nicely.

On topic though, I don't recall who, but someone here on this board once ava lilly once summed up the stance some of us here take: we don't have a problem with Jesus Christ, its his fan club that we have a problem with.

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

On topic though, I don't recall who, but someone here on this board once summed up the stance some of us here take: we don't have a problem with Jesus Christ, its his fan club that we have a problem with.

ava lilly. <3

That woman is wiser than all of you bible-thumping fucks put together.

Originally Posted by Nahika

Let's face facts Christianity gives us so much freedom most people tend to hate on it yet they love freedom.

I ask, truly what sort of freedom is "Do this or go to Hell."? No person in his sane mind would desire an eternal torment, so the default choice becomes obedience. That's not freedom, it's extortion. Get your perspective straight.

An adulterer exercises more freedom than a man who clutches his rosary all day, for he is not bound by dogmatic law.

Quote:

Face it that if he never came that we'd be a supremely oppressed society, women would be supremely oppressed almost slave like, women benefited a lot from the coming of Christ.

Yes, thank God we've eradicated all oppression from this world! If you'd crawl out from beneath the shelter of your religion, you'd see that women are horribly mistreated still. In third-world countries, they're subjected to the worst ritualistic mutilations imaginable. In the Middle East, women are second-class citizens deemed unworthy of opinion. In North America, women are still misogynized and objectified as part and parcel of our obsession with beauty and pop culture.

I'm glad Jesus fixed all that.

Quote:

If people don't find Jesus or want him at least you can root for him because we are taught compassion and patience and compared to Muhammad and his followers they are going to oppress the world.

Hey, they only learned from the Christians who pioneered the art of bloodthirst in the name of righteousness.

Glass houses, you know.

Quote:

They are going to give people the ultimatum one day it's either follow or die.

So, it's basically the same rhetoric the Christians have been spewing for centuries?

Quote:

All our inner cores wants to be forgiven.. we want peace and love we don't want to kill we're considerate and compassionate that's all our lord represents.
Everything he says is what our inner cores want to hear even if you're not even a religious person it just clicks.

No, it's quite obvious that we do not want peace and love. We understand these to be desirable ideals but we, as a collective, do not choose them. They don't serve our purposes. Eventually, several centuries from now, perhaps we'll understand these things enough to make higher choices. For the time, all this war, disease, poverty and hate is serving a very valuable function: we're experiencing it firsthand. You have no idea how crucial this truly is for a society's growth. Without the darkness, light has no context.

They don't teach you that in church though.

Quote:

It's saddening that Jesus is so great but his church suffers because we as his followers just aren't humble and considerate to our brothers and sisters that we tend to scare off the new. Or the Catastrophes of our lives make him negate him. It's sad that the disobedience or negation of one man can bring down so many.

If the church is suffering due to arrogance and mistrust, it is these things of which the church itself is guilty, and not its people to each other. The Christian church, so bound in its archaic ways, has failed to adapt to the modernization of this world. Where once many phenomena could only be explained as acts of God, now they've been explained by science. Instead of celebrating this, instead of thanking God for science, empyrical thought is denounced. How ridiculous! By distancing itself from our increased awareness of basic, scientific truths, it's Christianity that seems remote and out-of-touch with this realm.

Quote:

I pray for this world.

And there is the fundamental error. Me, I give thanks for this world.

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

If the church is suffering due to arrogance and mistrust, it is these things of which the church itself is guilty, and not its people to each other. The Christian church, so bound in its archaic ways, has failed to adapt to the modernization of this world. Where once many phenomena could only be explained as acts of God, now they've been explained by science. Instead of celebrating this, instead of thanking God for science, empyrical thought is denounced. How ridiculous! By distancing itself from our increased awareness of basic, scientific truths, it's Christianity that seems remote and out-of-touch with this realm.

You hit the nail right on the head here - that's the main problem I have with all the churches I have ever attended. It's like sitting in a time bubble, where time stopped somewhere in the 70s or 80s, and they think that there's some huge war between religion and science, and there can't be any reconciliation. IMHO they can fit quite well together, and should, but as you said, instead of thanking God for human ingenuity, scientific thinking, learning, and understanding, they sit around and say that such things are evil and designed to distance us from the real God.

I don't want to sound like a thumper here, but in my personal experience, science has only ever drawn me closer in my faith. That's not meant to be some sort of religious plea for everyone here to get saved, so don't take that the wrong way, that's meant to provide an example as to how horribly mixed up the church is.

There are many different ways of thinking that provide many different world views, and sometimes people can look at the same thing and come to two very different conclusions. The fact of the matter is, Christians need to realize that some people are perfectly happy the way they are, and that no amount of scare tactics are going to get them "saved." I think that kind of defeats the whole purpose of salvation and is quite anti-biblical at that - if you just believe in the resurrection so you don't go to Hell. Not a strong foundation.

And I think many Christians would do well to dwell on the possibility that they may be wrong. I believe I'm right, sure, but I also wrestle with the fact that there is a possibility that I'm wrong. It's how you live your life with that in mind that really defines who you are. If I'm only being Christian to avoid Hell, or other simple & base reasons, that's going to show. If I'm a Christian because of something deeper, I'm probably going to be satisfied with what the world views as "restrictions & rules" and that's going to show up in light of the idea that I may be wrong about the afterlife, and the whole spiritual realm.

I've especially seen this come out in religious debates on this forum and others - those who can't deal with that fact that they are wrong deal with other people, and challenges towards their faith very poorly, and often make complete idiots of themselves.

Just ask yourself: If your beliefs are wrong, could you still be happy with how you are living as a result of your religion? Are you just doing it to get rewarded in the end?

Wow. Sorry to fly off the handle and get preachy there. It's just something I've been dwelling on recently.

Quote:

Why Jesus and not God?

Hrrmm...

The Jewish pray to God. Muslims pray to God. Oh, but they've been slaughtered by the millions by *ahem* 'other' religions throughout history. Yeah, that must be the wrath of God, that...

Originally Posted by PretzelCorps

Hrrmm...

The Jewish pray to God. Muslims pray to God. Oh, but they've been slaughtered by the millions by *ahem* 'other' religions throughout history. Yeah, that must be the wrath of God, that...

What? God, don't try and be deep if you're a bloody idiot. The wrath of god, muslims and jews? Try making some fucking sense next time. This is what, a thinly veiled "there is no god because bad things happen to believers" argument? Or maybe just blatant idiocy? Either way, not impressive. Because Christians -haven't- been slaughtered for their beliefs? Atheists haven't faced persecution for theirs? Get a grip.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

What? God, don't try and be deep if you're a bloody idiot. The wrath of god, muslims and jews? Try making some fucking sense next time. This is what, a thinly veiled "there is no god because bad things happen to believers" argument? Or maybe just blatant idiocy? Either way, not impressive. Because Christians -haven't- been slaughtered for their beliefs? Atheists haven't faced persecution for theirs? Get a grip.

Yeah, fine, it was too vague, I agree.

The point was that I've been told several times before that Christianity is the only way because the Christian countries and peoples are the only that have never really been dealt any "wrath of God"; the irony is that said "wrath of God" events include Christian initiated events like the crusades, the holocaust, etc.

And it wasn't deep it was sarcastic.

***

Why "find Jesus"?

I think things have just been too blown out of proportion. Worshiping Christ as God Himself seems to just kinda miss the mark a little bit, doesn't it? I don't think the whole point was to end up praying to him, and becoming a "united servanthood of Christ". It just makes more sense to follow him and his life as an example for your own; something to strive for, and nothing more.

The idea of God, if he exists, leaves little of an example to look up to. Who knows why he does/did the things he's done? Jesus' life and decisions make a lot more sense to the common man, as it's just a wee bit easier to relate to another man, rather than, say, an omnipotent being.

Far too many people today use their Christianity to supplant their moral "holier than thou" attitude.

Originally Posted by SCHWARZE-6

If the church is suffering due to arrogance and mistrust, it is these things of which the church itself is guilty, and not its people to each other. The Christian church, so bound in its archaic ways, has failed to adapt to the modernization of this world. Where once many phenomena could only be explained as acts of God, now they've been explained by science. Instead of celebrating this, instead of thanking God for science, empyrical thought is denounced. How ridiculous! By distancing itself from our increased awareness of basic, scientific truths, it's Christianity that seems remote and out-of-touch with this realm.

As sad as this seems, it's completely true on so many levels. Nobody advances anything by simply denying the presented argument without any other reason than "because God said so ". Frankly, I'd be rather interested in the theological rebuttal to many scientific facts. But there is none. So why can't they accept that they're wrong about some things?

I just want to say 2 things.

#1 The Son of GOD, whom is The Messiah Christ Jesus is not " GOD ". I dont know how hard it is for people to understand that Jesus Christ was " sent by GOD ", thus nobody can send thierself. The Word Trinity is not even found in none of the bibles, neither is the term. Jesus Is the son of GOD, not GOD.

#2 Anyone who reads the bible is suppose to hold their faith in GOD & Jesus Christ, Jesus is the savior of this world, so to ask why Jesus is kinda weird to ask. Everbody already knows GOD is comes first, but from the bible viewpoint, Jesus makes it clear that before you can know GOD, you have to know me( Jesus ) first.

PEACE