Atheist parents!

Were your parents Jehovah's Witnesses or something?

That's the one, yep.

As far as Santa is concerned, I won't bring that onto my kids. It's completely unnessecary. They're going to find out eventually and I'd love to keep misinformation to a bare minimum when I raise them. Though hell if they create some other concept for Christmas I'd be all for that especially if they are creating it entirely with their imaginations and isn't being derivative.

Oh yeah and I'd ask them not to ruin it for the other kids. They want to be ignorant, that's fine, I'd rather not have to answer to disgruntled parents who choose to put up that charade.

Just don't talk about it, let your kids decide for themselves. As an athiest as well I strongly beelive in free thought and I imagine you do too. Being athiest is being independant and you should allow your kids to be too.

My parents and Dad's grandparents for that matter are all athiest.

My mother was (and still is) an extremely zealous, almost fanatical Christian. She makes LSword look almost sane by comparison. She refuses to believe in evolution, not becuase she doesn't think there is enough evidence or anything like that but soley because she believes that the Bible should be taken literally, all of it, every last bit. For the record we're in the U.K, a land where everyone knows that evolution is a fact, or at least they should know since we don't have all that creationism crap.

When I was younger she would take me and my brother to her meeting hall every sunday where we spent 6 hours being told that the Bible was literally true and that you should never, ever question it.

Luckily both me and my brother have stong anti-authoritarian tendencies, as well as the capacity for critical and logical thinking. While both me and my brother are athiets, my mother has decided to start indoctrinating my youngest brother by telling him things like evolution is false and that catholics and homosexuals are evil. Naturally I've started showing him things like Randi and Dawkins on the sly.

When I have kids the plan is to never bring up religion until they do, which they probably will after their first R.E lesson. I'll tell them my position and why I chose that position while stressing that I could be wrong and instead of blindly following me they should think for themselves. That or I'll teach them that I am god and should be served at all times no matter how insane my commandments are.

My mom had a decent method I think. She just let us choose whatever, and doesn't judge us for whatever religion we choose. She also likes the fact that me and my sister go to a church, because we have another form of support other than home. She didn't go out of her way to inform us about religion or anything, but she didn't stop us from learning when we did find out about it.

Originally Posted by Cellius

Anyway, your thoughts?

Don't be like my parents. They were violent and did lots of things that drove me to God.
The very mention of God in my home was a sure way to get my butt kicked.

Love & support your kids and let them learn in reasonable boundaries.
Besides the Christian way there are worse paths to choose from, I know.
I tried them.
The occult and a multitude of other belief systems compete with mine.

I'm a parent and to keep up with todays trends I stay in touch with guys like you. Thanks to folks like you I have been proactive in my approach to inform my oldest on my view & competing views. I also live out my values and model what my belief stands for to show the reality of how it works.

In time they will choose and I wont stand in their way unless their choices will do them harm.

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

Religion is from a time when we didn't know-we had no way to know-that the Earth was a sphere, or that micro-organisms existed and had dominion over us. I'll reinforce that we now have a much better explanation and understanding about our situation in this rather odd solar system.

that's funny, this little book i've got next to me called the Quran says otherwise.

the earth is not a sphere, it is actually geo-spherical in shape. the Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

“And we have made the earth egg shaped”. [79:30]

the arabic word dahaha means egg shaped. dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geo-spherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

i'll let that whet your appetite... there's also plenty in the Quran with regards to our solar system such as the big bang, rotation of the planets and other stuff.

i have a question for you JackyBoy - since you yourself say that man at that time had no way to know this, please explain where all this scientific knowledge that resides in the Quran come from?

Amazon.com: The Meaning Of The Holy Quran (Meaning of the Holy Quran): Books: Abdullah Yusuf Ali

The resemblance is just striking.

Didn't Mohammud say something about "even the mountains moving" years before tectonic theory and the proof that yes, mountains did in fact move.

What is this I hear about you people not telling kids about Santa Claus? What are you, communists? Don't you (those of you who grew up with the Santa) remember how awesome it was to go downstairs at like five thirty in the morning and see all those presents that weren't there before? Don't you remember that feeling, of impossibilities happening? What, are you going to explain every magic trick they see just to suck the joy out of their lives? What kind of heartless person do you have to be to suck the wonderment out of kids?

What do you think will happen if you DO tell them? Exactly the same that happened to you when you found out. Nothing.

I mean, how can you call it misinformation? wha? Do you really deem it necessary to bring the crushing weight of reality down on five year old shoulders? don't you have any respect of the age of innocence and nativity?

shit. i would feel cheated if i never got in on the Santa.

Originally Posted by whinehurst

What is this I hear about you people not telling kids about Santa Claus? What are you, communists? Don't you (those of you who grew up with the Santa) remember how awesome it was to go downstairs at like five thirty in the morning and see all those presents that weren't there before? Don't you remember that feeling, of impossibilities happening? What, are you going to explain every magic trick they see just to suck the joy out of their lives? What kind of heartless person do you have to be to suck the wonderment out of kids?

What do you think will happen if you DO tell them? Exactly the same that happened to you when you found out. Nothing.

I mean, how can you call it misinformation? wha? Do you really deem it necessary to bring the crushing weight of reality down on five year old shoulders? don't you have any respect of the age of innocence and nativity?

shit. i would feel cheated if i never got in on the Santa.

Thats exactly how I feel about it, yes. And you'd be surprised at how many people think the whole Santa Claus thing is "lying" to their kids.

I'll never understand it. Kids have an imagination. Kids won't be crushed when they find out that the fat guy in a red suit was just all pretend. It makes shit more EXCITING for them.

Kids won't be crushed at all. In fact I was happy to learn that Santa didn't exist and it was my mom the entire time. No more "middle man."

Well, there are more then one ways to inspire imagination and wonderment in children. Although I think the whole Santa Claus thing is rather an artificial construct that don't necessarily make sense. Perhaps it is part of your childhood and you had very fond memory of it, good for you. Although that doesn't mean it is a necessary part of everybody's childhood, and I don't think individuals that grow up without having some fat stranger in red suit is necessarily "deprived".

Originally Posted by Casual_Otaku

that's funny, this little book i've got next to me called the Quran says otherwise.

the earth is not a sphere, it is actually geo-spherical in shape. the Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

“And we have made the earth egg shaped”. [79:30]

the arabic word dahaha means egg shaped. dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geo-spherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

i'll let that whet your appetite... there's also plenty in the Quran with regards to our solar system such as the big bang, rotation of the planets and other stuff.

i have a question for you JackyBoy - since you yourself say that man at that time had no way to know this, please explain where all this scientific knowledge that resides in the Quran come from?

Amazon.com: The Meaning Of The Holy Quran (Meaning of the Holy Quran): Books: Abdullah Yusuf Ali

Well, my question is this: Does Euclid predate the Quran? He realized that the earth was round in 300 BC.

Now, back on topic. Religion really isn't so bad. It's when you get into the whole: "My religion is better than yours" ideology. I don't believe in pushing religious beliefs onto anyone.

As for your children, it's easy:

First off, wait until they ask you something along the lines: "Why does Johnny go to church?" THEN you can tell them. But, don't be sarcastic or degrading about it. Remember, many people find comfort in religion. Just explain to them that Mom and Dad don't believe in God, but that doesn't make it any more right or wrong than what others believe. It's a personal choice--just like anything a person does. Also, let them know that no matter what they choose, you will support them.

Originally Posted by whinehurst

....What do you think will happen if you DO tell them? Exactly the same that happened to you when you found out. Nothing.

I mean, how can you call it misinformation? wha? Do you really deem it necessary to bring the crushing weight of reality down on five year old shoulders? don't you have any respect of the age of innocence and nativity?

shit. i would feel cheated if i never got in on the Santa.

I worked with a woman who told me of her experience of finding out about Santa.

It still bothered her even at the age of 28. When she was a kid, school kids teased her constantly & with great relish about her belief in Santa.
They were cruel in many ways for a long period of time. I am put in the same position often in life and it gave me the chance to encourage her with a biblical message.

I have a Niece who was terrorized by an "invisible" dog-like creature with glowing eyes under her bed. She was thankful of my banishing the thing in the name of Christ. It never returned.

My kid is afraid of the basement. After a refresher course on the Armor of God he is good to go.

I dont sell Santa because its not useful. Entertaining but not useful.
I dont want to sow seeds of doubt about other things I believe in but cant be seen. For the atheist I suppose the same thing could happen. Dont set your kids up for doubting your convictions later in life.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I worked with a woman who told me of her experience of finding out about Santa.

It still bothered her even at the age of 28. When she was a kid, school kids teased her constantly & with great relish about her belief in Santa.

"At age 28, I am still hurt about Santa not being real." If this is true, I hope the woman you speak of is mentally retarded. Seriously.

I don't think we were talking about fears either, there. Way to pay attention.

Quote:

I dont sell Santa because its not useful. Entertaining but not useful.
I dont want to sow seeds of doubt about other things I believe in but cant be seen. For the atheist I suppose the same thing could happen. Dont set your kids up for doubting your convictions later in life.

Kids aren't adults. The mentality that you take as an adult will not be relayed to a child well. They don't understand "useful." Kids aren't going to follow your conviction through life. Kids will grow up, and hopefully, they won't be fucking crushed by a man in a red suit who is a figment of their imagination. Get real.

Kids need a creative environment to flourish. They like to imagine, they like to pretend, and it's a great avenue for them to take in encouraging them to think about the world around them. Yes, magic isn't real. That doesn't mean you shouldn't allow your kids to read Tolkien or Harry Potter books, watch The Neverending Story, or pretend they're a wizard in the backyard playing with imaginary potions. They won't suffer when they grown up - it's a natural process for them to slowly become more acclimated to their environment and the reality of it all.

Encourage your kids to have a sense of imagination and wonder about the world. Don't make them adults right out of the goddamn womb. Imagination begets curiosity and creativity.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I dont want to sow seeds of doubt about other things I believe in but cant be seen. For the atheist I suppose the same thing could happen. Dont set your kids up for doubting your convictions later in life.

really? Santa is the thing that will put your children's faith at risk? that's a mighty powerful conviction.

I don't know what you're coworker's experience was, but i remember back in the day there was one kid who didn't believe in Santa, and he's the one who got ridiculed. Not mercilessly, but still.

As for useful, there were plenty of times my parent's pulled the "Santa's watching" move on me, year round, and i straighted right up. Maybe that's not as useful as spiritual Kevlar (what is that, like a +4 AC?), but still...