Atheist parents!

Originally Posted by Arainach

The Universe is a rather dumb (I use dumb in the same sense as one calls a computer dumb) place - it doesn't think and pick the most logical design or course of action, and if it was designed by some intelligence they did a rather piss-poor job.

Let's think about this for a moment, because that's a rather grand statement.

Do you understand the true nature of the entire universe? I'd be shocked if you do. I'd be shocked if anyone does. Stephen Hawking has made some progress yet still wrestles with theory, and you are not Stephen Hawking.

Consider, perhaps the universe is logical and that everything makes very good sense, happening for well-defined reason. These processes, whether by ultimate chance or higher design - the point is moot - would be part of a system that has been in action for countless epochs. How old are you? Do you see people on the street and label them "dumb" because you don't know where they're going and why? Is their purpose illogical merely because you're not privy to their goal? It can take the better part of a human lifetime to master chess, a game with only 32 functional pieces and a small handful of laws. The universe: infinitely moreso. Grasping or dismissing the fundamental order of the entire cosmos isn't a gesture that anyone can authoritatively make after only twenty-some-odd years of living.

Your failure to understand the universe does not constitute objective inefficiency, randomness or poor design on the universe's part or the part of any potential creator.

Originally Posted by Sceptre X

But what it represents is the more important focus, because personally for me, I've seen some of the greatest acts of kindness done through religion.

I agree religion has done some of the greatest acts of kindness. This is due to people feeling a need to just be kind, and because sections of text from their scripture tells them that performing kindness is a good thing. If this was all their religious text told them to do I wouldn't have a problem with it. The problems arise when they start to believe in ideas which have no foundation in reality, or at worst, contradict reality. And unfortunately, almost all religions have these kinds of ideas.

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

Your failure to understand the universe does not constitute objective inefficiency, randomness or poor design on the universe's part or the part of any potential creator.

Arainach's argument is different than the argument you're addressing. You're saying "Don't say something is inefficient when you don't understand it." This is a statement I think both me and Arainach would agree with. However, I think Arainach is saying "Say something is inefficient when we understand how it could be more efficient." There are a lot of parts of the Universe we don't understand, but there are some that we do, and out of these parts that we understand there are objective inefficiencies (evolution being the most obvious example of showing how the universe makes objective inefficiencies).