Religion: What it means to you

Originally Posted by Paper Crane

I guess I'm a Christian. But do I believe in the nativity story and Adam and Eve? Heck no! This is why I say 'I guess', aka I celebrate Christmas, Easter and other such holidays. However I celebrate these holidays not for my love of god, but for my love of what these events mean to me. On Christmas everybody gets presents and eats good food and is charitable and what not, and I think thats frigging awesome. I don't go to church on Sundays, and if I ever do it reminds me of how little I believe in the stories.

You do realize that Christianity cannot start without purpose, right? That Adam and Eve "story" is the reason why Christ came. Death through Adam, Life through Christ. You should stick with one religion in order to avoid confusion or conflict in beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Christian (although I did follow for two years), but I'm pointing that out just to let you know.

Originally Posted by Erisu Kimu

You do realize that Christianity cannot start without purpose, right? That Adam and Eve "story" is the reason why Christ came. Death through Adam, Life through Christ. You should stick with one religion in order to avoid confusion or conflict in beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Christian (although I did follow for two years), but I'm pointing that out just to let you know.

First off this forum is not meant for a debate, it is about statements on your opinions. It says so clearly at the start. However I shall respond in order to redeem my beliefs. I apologize in advance.

Beliefs are beliefs. And the purpose is what you make of them. To me a religion is merely it's effect on people. Therefore saying I'm Christian because I believe in the celebration of Christmas and other holidays for the feeling it gives to people, would be correct. This is what it means to me, it is my opinion and therefore cannot be false by definition. If your opinions are different than mine be happy with them, as long as you realize it is an opinion and is not right or wrong.

If you wish to continue the discussion I suggest we take this to pm's, as havening it here will most likely aggravate people.

Originally Posted by Paper Crane

First off this forum is not meant for a debate, it is about statements on your opinions. It says so clearly at the start. However I shall respond in order to redeem my beliefs. I apologize in advance.

Beliefs are beliefs. And the purpose is what you make of them. To me a religion is merely it's effect on people. Therefore saying I'm Christian because I believe in the celebration of Christmas and other holidays for the feeling it gives to people, would be correct. This is what it means to me, it is my opinion and therefore cannot be false by definition. If your opinions are different than mine be happy with them, as long as you realize it is an opinion and is not right or wrong.

If you wish to continue the discussion I suggest we take this to pm's, as havening it here will most likely aggravate people.

lol, calm down, don't take this the wrong way. Believe what you want. No one said you couldn't. I was only pointing out certain elements of what Christianity was about according to what it says in the Bible. That's all it was.

Originally Posted by Erisu Kimu

Believe what you want. No one said you couldn't.

lol, I would just like to do so without having to hear about it. :P

Originally Posted by GhaleonQ

As I stated, I did not mean to start a debate. I'm merely interested in reading people's perspectives. So, despite chomping at the bit to do so (theology's uselessness strikes me as the most agregious offense), I'll merely nod and thank those who posted for doing so.

Instead of explaining why I think religion is useless, I'll instead provide a quote which I think sums up just how precious life, in the here and now, not some eternal garden waiting for us, truly is.

Unweaving the Rainbow: We are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they're never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place, but who will, in fact, never see the light of day, outnumber the sand grains of Sahara. In the face of these stupefying odds, it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. -Richard Dawkins

Originally Posted by randy_ui

Why does God exist?
I use both the theories of "Evolution" and Christianity to explain why there is a God.

There has to be a "supernatural" power - God must be included in the equation in order for evolution to work..

It is just as comparible as placing a bunch of screws, a wrist band, a battery, a piece of glass, a minute hand, an hour hand, and a seconds hand, all into a wooden box, shaking it up, and getting a working watch in the outcome.. Stuff like that "is" technically possible - but I'm just sorry-I really can't believe it happened on its own... there must be a Creator!!

Many people seem to misunderstand what Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is really all about. Once you know it, it becomes extremely difficult to accept how it could ever be compatible with the design theory.

The design theory is a bit of a conundrum, in that, why does it help anyone understand the complexity of human life by invoking a being of even greater complexity? However improbable it was for human life to begin, it is even more improbable that a divine creator was the cause of it. The design theory is certainly attractive only in that we never see pocket watches designing a watch maker, but the theory fails to answer one very important question. Who designed the designer?

The greater the statistical improbability, the less plausible is chance as the solution. -TGD

Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is not a theory of chance. His theory is a way to describe how abundant simplicity gave rise, over millions of years, to a highly improbable system of complexity.

Richard Dawkins uses a helpful analogy: Climbing Mount Improbable. At the base of the mountain are the bacterial beginnings of life, at the top, humans today and other complex life. To jump up a sheer cliff to the top in a single vault is out of the question. Instead, if you go to the back of the mountain, you find a gradual gradient of 'evolution' inching its way up. All you have to do to get there is put one foot in front of the other (over millions of years) and you'll reach the top.

Whatever can be said of Darwin's theory, one thing for certain, is that it's a much more elegant way of describing human life than solving the problem of improbability by invoking the very improbable.

Originally Posted by Erisu Kimu

You do realize that Christianity cannot start without purpose, right? That Adam and Eve "story" is the reason why Christ came. Death through Adam, Life through Christ. You should stick with one religion in order to avoid confusion or conflict in beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Christian (although I did follow for two years), but I'm pointing that out just to let you know.

The story of Adam and Eve was only ever symbolic wasn’t it? Symbolic? So Jesus had himself tortured and executed for a symbolic sin by a non-existent individual? Nobody not brought up in the faith could reach any verdict other than, barking mad. –Richard Dawkins

If this is true, if the story of Adam and Eve is not an actual account of history, which is incidentally something some educated theologians would agree upon, it seems to undermine Saint Paul’s theory of atonement for original sin. And as you said yourself, as a consequence, it would almost certainly undermine the premise of Christianity.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

In this case those "Nazis" were not living out the dictates of the belief system that was still being fed to them at that time by their leaders. Please use a different example.

No, I'm not going to use a different example. You say Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King Jr. speak to the ultimate meaning of Christianity. I could just as easily say that men of the Crusades speak to the ultimate meaning of Christianity. Both of these ideas depended upon scripture for their beliefs, but they certainly both can't be true. That is because they are both false in the same way; Christianity has no ultimate meaning to begin with. It is merely a book of moral statements, some of which are very outdated and some of which are not. This is not a book by which we live by. This is a book that we edit in order for it to remain within our worldview, for no other purpose than to feel some special pride in thinking that our moral convictions are backed up by an invisible omniscient force.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

The south was winning the battle because of the money wrapped up in the decision making. And God was not ok with slavery, hence the reason for this issue to divide believers at that time. True slavery was a fact of life in bible times but Jesus was about setting people free from bondage not making excuses for it.

You're very ignorant to think that a scripture battle can be won through money. It's won through who has the most versus on their side. When we compare scripture, a very strong argument can be made pro-slavery while a very weak argument can be made anti-slavery. If God and Jesus saw no problem with it, neither should we. End of story.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Not so. Religion was around first then the atheists came later and borrowed what fit their views. Atheism is a reletavely new stand in civilizations. No evidence of ancient atheistic cultures has been found.

You're either an idiot or you didn't read what I said in my previous post. In any case, I'm done with this thread.

Paper Crane, I apologize. I feel like this is my fault.

Originally Posted by GhaleonQ

Paper Crane, I apologize. I feel like this is my fault.

Apologize for what? I'm still smiling. Seeeeeeeee ---->
If I sound annoyed, I am not. It's all in good fun.

Originally Posted by FallDragon

No, I'm not going to use a different example. You say Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King Jr. speak to the ultimate meaning of Christianity. I could just as easily say that men of the Crusades speak to the ultimate meaning of Christianity. Both of these ideas depended upon scripture for their beliefs, but they certainly both can't be true. That is because they are both false in the same way; Christianity has no ultimate meaning to begin with. It is merely a book of moral statements, some of which are very outdated and some of which are not. This is not a book by which we live by. This is a book that we edit in order for it to remain within our worldview, for no other purpose than to feel some special pride in thinking that our moral convictions are backed up by an invisible omniscient force.



You're very ignorant to think that a scripture battle can be won through money. It's won through who has the most versus on their side. When we compare scripture, a very strong argument can be made pro-slavery while a very weak argument can be made anti-slavery. If God and Jesus saw no problem with it, neither should we. End of story.



You're either an idiot or you didn't read what I said in my previous post. In any case, I'm done with this thread.

I get this allot when dealing with people about religion and it brings me back to the original point of this thread.
Religion keeps me trying when others give up. It means discipline, perseverance, wisdom and compassion when all that is outside of religion lacks such things. Above all, it is my source for humility. The texts I turn to remind me of my place when reaching out to others. When people respond to me in this way I am further humbled by the fact that it takes more than what I am to change someone else's heart & mind, so I turn to my faith in prayer for those that I come in contact with.

Religion is worthless - atleast for Christianity. Society had fun fucking up the religion I was born under and constantly altering the bible to "make sense" to the public. Therefore I've deviated from religion but I'm still a follower of God. And before anyone says "you can't not be in a religion and believe in God, because God is a religion" Jews don't believe in hell - go figure.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I get this allot when dealing with people about religion and it brings me back to the original point of this thread.
Religion keeps me trying when others give up. It means discipline, perseverance, wisdom and compassion when all that is outside of religion lacks such things. Above all, it is my source for humility. The texts I turn to remind me of my place when reaching out to others. When people respond to me in this way I am further humbled by the fact that it takes more than what I am to change someone else's heart & mind, so I turn to my faith in prayer for those that I come in contact with.

Why can't you do any of that without religion?

I just finally finished my read of the Book Of Concord. It's all that I can do to avoid a rambling, 4-post summary right now.

This thread is still alive?!

All I can really say that I have not said on this thread before is the major religions are quite decent, it's just the bad apples that can give some of them a bad name.

"Some of them"? No just Christianity. Everyone is A OK with other religions >_>.

Well you gotta admit, some of the ten commandments are decent.

Originally Posted by Chibi Neko

Well you gotta admit, some of the ten commandments are decent.

The 10 commandments are in Judaism and Islam as well, as they all come from the same route. So Christianity can't claim it as theirs. Also there are things in other religions such as the Noble Truths and the Cause and Effect Sutra from Buddhism. When you look at almost all religions the have the 'don't kill's and the 'don't steal's. It's just a different way of explaining the same ideas.

...For the record, "The 10 Commandments" are not laws to be followed by Christians. They and the rest of the Old Covenant laws are Hebrew-specific.

That will be the extent of my debating in this topic.