Religion: What it means to you

She's made it very clear, Devo. Quit trying to stir shit up.

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

No I'd like you to differentiate between Christians who preach and Christians who just practice and don't bother anyone. People can be Christians without having to proselytize.

Did you even read my post, Devo. ;_; I beg you to go back and re-read.

That's my point, see. I don't mind Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Scientologists - if they stay out of my life.

Originally Posted by Sass in that post

It's his followers that really aggravate me - and not even all of them! The majority of Christians are totally fucking rad with me. Like I said: stay out of my head, I'll stay out of yours. Most Christians I know are pretty much to themselves, and have no underlying desire to yap at me about their god. Just like I don't yap at them about my lack of a god.

You seem like you're a Christian, eh? You're cool in my book. You're not preaching. You're not telling me that you have some kind of crazy proof from space or anything. You just say "Hey. This is what I believe in." And I say "Hey. That's cool."

So you're just here to pick a fight then. WELL.

Nova, I was in the same boat as you. I was raised Roman Catholic by an agnostic man who wanted us to have some religion in our lives. My sister and I went through the whole thing - like you did.

And we ended up about the same way, I imagine. Catholicism. Gotta love it.

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

No I'd like you to differentiate between Christians who preach and Christians who just practice and don't bother anyone. People can be Christians without having to proselytize.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm gonna guess that Christians who preach are the ones that preach, and Christians that don't... are the ones that don't. I might have that backwards though. Someone clarify if I don't as I really don't wanna come off looking foolish here!

And come on Devo, don't intercede a battle with a side battle. =\

<3

Quote:

"It's not evangelism that makes Christianity so infectious - it's the shit the Bible says that will happen if you don't believe. Oldest tactic ever: scare the shit out of them - they'll believe.

Yeah it's totally not the sense of community many Churches offer. Yes there are people who get scared into believing, but there are also people who find the communities involved in the church to be quite welcoming. I'm not stirring shit up guys, I'm kind of tired of blanket statements on both sides.

To: Sassafrass
CC: Capo

Subject: My point

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

Yeah it's totally not the sense of community many Churches offer. Yes there are people who get scared into believing, but there are also people who find the communities involved in the church to be quite welcoming. I'm not stirring shit up guys, I'm kind of tired of blanket statements on both sides.

I'm confused. At which point did anyone say "all Christians" evangelize? Or made any "blanket statements?" Like I said, the majority of Christians I know are really cool people who have their own beliefs (that's in reference to ones I KNOW, not a generalization about ALL of them) I've since been to churches (even at a GFF meet!), and yea, most of these religious congregations don't push. I don't know why you think anyone is saying all of Christianity pushes - packrat kind of implied it with the "success" of "Christianity," but that can be twisted easily.

ALL of the Christians I know don't bother with evangelism. (There's probably a reason for this: I don't think I'd want a friend who preached to me a whole bunch). My issue was with LordSword who thinks that "Biblical" truth is actual truth.

Packrat, instead of using a giant image to say we missed your point, could you maybe clarify?

He'd have gotten less props for that, though.

Poison or Cure? Religious Belief in the Modern World

Thread over. Christopher Hitchens machine guns the theological argument in less than 20 minutes starting at roughly the 6:00 minute mark. I would ask our believers here to watch (at least partly) this video and please give us a serious answer to the points Hitchens raises. I highly recommend this to the forum infidels and skeptics too so that you may replenish your ammunition and have a few good chuckles along the way.

"Why was the Amish woman excommunicated?"
"Too Mennonite (2 men a night)"
*ba dum pssh*

Just an observation, but I'm disappointed that many of our defenders of reason here are pulling their punches in their criticism of religion which is wholly fair (the criticism).

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

Just an observation, but I'm disappointed that many of our defenders of reason here are pulling their punches in their criticism of religion which is wholly fair (the criticism).

Who said anyone was pulling punches? If you have some mystical magical OMG LOOK THE FUCK OUT knockout blow, then come with it (and your YouTube clip AIN'T it). And what kind of douchebag moseys on into a thread and just goes "OMG LOOK AT THIS LOL GAME OVER!"

In the words of the greatest man in sports entertainment, The Rock...

...who is this roody poo candy ass?

(I apologize. I've just always wanted to do that to someone.)

Originally Posted by packrat

Your ridiculous assertion that, since he is not a Christian, he is in no position to judge the opinion of those external to Christianity is utterly without merit. If it is your duty to be an evangelist, and be a good ambassador to the non-Christian masses, you are doing a piss-poor job of it.

Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love
the LORD your God with all your heart,
and with all your soul, and with all your
might.

1 Peter 3:15 but in your hearts
sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready
to make your defense to anyone who
demands from you an accounting for the
hope that is in you;

John 14:15 "If you love me, you
will keep my commandments.

God is the judge of my preformance not people. This is my priority.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

Proverbs 11:2
Proverbs 16:18
Proverbs 18:12

My reply to Kinkymagic & Packrat-->
1 Corinthians 2:11-15........Those who are
unspiritual do not receive the gifts of
God's Spirit, for they are foolishness to
them, and they are unable to understand
them because they are spiritually
discerned.
Those who are
spiritual discern all things, and they are
themselves subject to no one else's
scrutiny.

Biblical correction is attached to following biblical teaching. Until you can obey the book dont pretend to teach from it.

Originally Posted by SuperNova

Thanks. That's the argumentative equivalent of "NO U!" or "NUH UH! YOU'RE WRONG!" You sit there and judge everyone else, how does it feel to be on the other side of the pedestal?


And everything YOU say is how YOU think. Prove to me how it makes you RIGHT, then I'll agree with you.

I'm sorry. I didnt complete my thought because I was interrupted.
I volunteer to help homeless people in my community. I have sat down and talked with them. I know for a fact that their opinion of Christians isn't based just on the services. They know that we use our time because of what is written in the book:

Matthew 25:35-40 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

This last passage is the basis for ALL Christian service in many areas of community this is why people go running to thier local church when there is a catastrophe because there is the assumption that help is available.

Where is the basis for an atheist or agnostic to serve in their community?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

God is the judge of my preformance not people. This is my priority.

No one here, from what I can tell, is judging you as a person - something you haven't been as generous with in regards to judging us.

We (and I say we because a lot of us have stated this in the thread) are annoyed that you're preaching to people who have their own faith and their own beliefs.

Not just us atheists, either.

And why do you keep quoting scripture? We know you <3 the bible.

Maybe I should start quoting random books, too.

Quote:

Where is the basis for an atheist or agnostic to serve in their community?

You think that because a person doesn't believe in anything means they can't "serve their community?"

I can't tell you how many favors I've done for perfect strangers in my life. I see a person in need who I have the ability to help, I will try my best to offer my help to them. Not everyone is like this, of course - but personally, I think helping a person in need when I can is one of the most important things I can do in life.

I "serve my community" because I value my community. I want it to be the best it can be. I don't need religion to do it. If I live there, if I benefit from the community - why the hell should I NOT serve it?

You think only of serving your god. I think only of serving humanity. (And heaven knows it could use some help.)

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Biblical correction is attached to following biblical teaching. Until you can obey the book dont pretend to teach from it.

Then why dd you even ask for correction if you weren't going to accept it? How many more insane rules are you going to invent? From now on you will not respond to anyone who uses the letter 'e'?

Sassafrass has the right idea, every time you quote the bible I will quote a better book that reveals a greater truth. This time it's Snow Crash.

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial-arts monastery in China and studied real hard for ten years. If my family was wiped out by Colombian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, and devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad.

Chapter 36.

Quote:

Biblical correction is attached to following biblical teaching. Until you can obey the book dont pretend to teach from it.

Last I heard this is a message board for discussing things. Saying lack of belief in the book's lessons makes it impossible to understand what they truly convey is an exercise in ignorance. It's possible to be literate and have common sense and not believe in things, and still yet understand them! We call this "intelligence".

Also, obeying a book? Really? I mean, I understand the euphemism, but the way you keep wording things makes them seem so debasing.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Biblical correction is attached to following biblical teaching. Until you can obey the book dont pretend to teach from it.

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. Leviticus 20;9.

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. Leviticus 20:13

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. Deuteronomy 22:20-21

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. -Numbers 23:19



Knowledge, not belief, is the basis of understanding, son. Until you learn the difference, you seriously need to shut the fuck up and quit acting like you get to make arbitrary rules just because you're losing the argument.

You quote scripture to prove your point, we quote scripture to point out holes in the book you take as law. We quote from books we find life changing and important. We don't need your permission to prove you wrong.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Knowledge, not belief, is the basis of understanding, son. Until you learn the difference, you seriously need to shut the fuck up and quit acting like you get to make arbitrary rules just because you're losing the argument.

You quote scripture to prove your point, we quote scripture to point out holes in the book you take as law. We quote from books we find life changing and important. We don't need your permission to prove you wrong.

Deni wins. QED.

(I think I'm falling in love.)

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

And why do you keep quoting scripture? We know you <3 the bible.

Maybe I should start quoting random books, too.

I quote scripture for a reason. Everything I do is for a reason that is easily found in the bible.
Go ahead a quote the books you want. You are free to do that.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

You think only of serving your god. I think only of serving humanity. (And heaven knows it could use some help.)

"Heaven knows" is right. By serving my God I serve my community. I'm not hurting anybody by advertising for Jesus. If you are "fine" lets just leave it at that, why do you have to try to stop the message of Jesus from getting to people who may need it?

I was a dope head who got off drugs thanks to the bible. If you dont like the biblical message why dont you take my place and show people how to be "fine" like you?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

Then why dd you even ask for correction if you weren't going to accept it?

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Saying lack of belief in the book's lessons makes it impossible to understand what they truly convey is an exercise in ignorance. It's possible to be literate and have common sense and not believe in things, and still yet understand them! We call this "intelligence".

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Knowledge, not belief, is the basis of understanding, son. Until you learn the difference, you seriously need to shut the fuck up and quit acting like you get to make arbitrary rules just because you're losing the argument.

You quote scripture to prove your point, we quote scripture to point out holes in the book you take as law. We quote from books we find life changing and important.

So the unreligious can say to the religious person:
"Hey you're practicing your religion in the wrong way! We dont believe your book but do as we say anyway!!"
C'mon folks, who is being unreasonable now?

Originally Posted by Denicalis

We don't need your permission to prove you wrong.

No you don't and whatever proof you have I hope it works for you. I just make my case its my job. People tell me to shut up but look, i'm still here thanks to the freedom some people believe in.
From what I can see the unreligious folks are into censorship and taking freedom away from others.
My God is into freedom & equality for everybody. My religion means freedom for all people no matter what their position.