Religion: What it means to you

Over the years it has lost it's meaning to me. If God can forgive me in doubting his existence that'd be fine I suppose. Before the doubts were setting in, I loved being a christian very much and when I was younger I would "talk to God". That is how much I was into it.

Well, the Bible says "seek and you will find." So, as long as you have some sort of genuine interest in God, no pride and an open mind, you can't really go wrong.

I have no interest in the current existing religious religions. I've given a few a try, so I'm not just being blatantly stupid about my opinion here. Attended some sermons involving Christianity, gave Buddhism a try, and even thought at one point of my life that I could mix them somehow. But as it seems, I'm too geared to the whole science side of the war. The Science vs Religion war. I just don't have enough personal proof that there is a God. That there are greater beings than I. I look at what Science has to prove, I look at what Religion has to prove. I can only see more logic in Scientific observations than simply hearing someone say, "HE'S IN MY HEART!"

So, if I am to be accused of following a religion, I follow the religion where I am a believer of: Religion stinks, I don't believe in any of them.

Now, I'm not saying that the religions other people follow are bad and wrong. But there just isn't room for people like me who question these faiths and beliefs. Especially to such a degree where you ask someone to prove it to you now.

Religion fascinates me certainly, and there are ways of living your life and following beliefs which seem to work for some people. But it's not for me. It's never really been something I thought I could commit myself to.

My religion is a compilation of my own beliefs through life and academic experiences. This religion of mine is constantly growing and updating, it is not fixed. Science is in my religion, democracy and communism are also in my religion.

I'm an Atheist, owner of the website Atheist Resource. (The website with the banner featuring Christian Newton, Einstein and Darwin (they have all made great contributions to science)
I personally have no problem with people believing in God. What really bothers me is organised religion, how it is used, and how religious followers often demean or persecute those who do not believe in a God, or those who do not follow the same religion. Religious teachings have throughout history been used to justify some of the most appalling acts against Humanity. Unfortunatly, these acts are all too often brushed under the carpet so to speak, with claims 'They weren't true (insert religious identity here)'. When really, many of the atrocities committed are done because they 'truly believe it is what scriptures dictate'.
Ironicly, those who often commit these acts are the ones who often claim moral superiority - Kind of wacky really!!
Religion has some very good teachings, and unfortunately many bad teachings. While those not so nice teachings exist, there will always be religious nuts in their masses advocating nuttery!!

No offence to the religious here, I'm talking about the lunes who advocate death to non-believers, gays, abortion doctors, and those who beat so-called Demons out of kids....etc Yep! Religion is a nasty business.

Well Godless Cod, you have a problem with the fanatacists that take their religion too far in a negative direction.
Many people have been killed in the name of a God, whether it be God, Yahweh, Buddha, etc., but most religions these days have analyzed and apologized for those acts. Before his death, Pope John Paul II apologized for the crusades, as well as many other abominations that weaker men in the past have commited.

As for me, I'm currently involved in joining the Catholic church. It's been a wonderful spiritual journey, coming basically from a loose Christian background with little direction to preparing to be a devout catholic. My wife is Catholic, but that's not the reason I'm doing it. I'm doing it for me, but she helped me realize that it is important and it does make sense.
I had a ton of misconceptions about the church before joining it, mainly due to the media coverage of such topics, which is often horribly skewed and often the exact opposite of what a certain religion is trying to say.
One major one was that the church is outdated and out of touch. They are very much involved with the tough issues today, it just seems that most people aren't willing (or aren't ready) to take responsibility for their actions.
Sex is always a big topic with the Catholic church, being that they're against contraceptives (for good reason if you've ever taken the time to listen to the argument) and pre-marital sex. It's taken a lot of reflection and prayer to come to terms with such grave issues, but I believe I'm ready to take one of the biggest steps in my life. It will be a tough road, because being Catholic today is very difficult. However, if it was not difficult it would not be worth as much, IMO.

I still strongly disagree with religious fanatics like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and most of the evangelicals who believe in religion without responsibility, but I pray for them. The whole concept of prayer was very foreign to me, but throughout the class I have seen its power firsthand, and now strive to learn more about it and how to do its many different versions.

Hi Shadowlink,

Quote:

Well Godless Cod, you have a problem with the fantasists that take their religion too far in a negative direction.

Yes, we all have a problem with these groups. They are often the ones who make the most noise, and get their way, and as soon as that mentality influences politics, things become dangerous.

Quote:

Many people have been killed in the name of a God, whether it be God, Yahweh, Buddha, etc., but most religions these days have analyzed and apologized for those acts. Before his death, Pope John Paul II apologized for the crusades, as well as many other abominations that weaker men in the past have committed.

Yes, at least John Paul had the guts to apologise for some of the atrocities caused because of their policies. I was kind of sad when he died. Weaker men? Not sure what you mean here? Many were following scripture, and the orders issued by the Popes, and other high ranking clergy when committing these atrocities.

Quote:

As for me, I'm currently involved in joining the Catholic Church. It's been a wonderful spiritual journey, coming basically from a loose Christian background with little direction to preparing to be a devout catholic. My wife is Catholic, but that's not the reason I'm doing it. I'm doing it for me, but she helped me realize that it is important and it does make sense.

If it makes you happy, that’s great.

Quote:

I had a ton of misconceptions about the church before joining it, mainly due to the media coverage of such topics, which is often horribly skewed and often the exact opposite of what a certain religion is trying to say.
One major one was that the church is outdated and out of touch. They are very much involved with the tough issues today, it just seems that most people aren't willing (or aren't ready) to take responsibility for their actions.

I had a similar view as yours when I was a Christian. I believed people had misconceptions about religion. But, the more I studied the bible, world history, science, I soon realised religion wasn’t for me. I also realised that the only way Christianity had survived throughout the centuries, was with the use of force, persecution, etc. I could not proudly follow something like that. Soon after, I became an atheist. You’ll soon realise who your churchly friends are then.

Quote:

Sex is always a big topic with the Catholic church, being that they're against contraceptives (for good reason if you've ever taken the time to listen to the argument) and pre-marital sex. It's taken a lot of reflection and prayer to come to terms with such grave issues, but I believe I'm ready to take one of the biggest steps in my life. It will be a tough road, because being Catholic today is very difficult. However, if it was not difficult it would not be worth as much, IMO.

Yes, I know sex has always been an issue with the Church; they used to kill people because of it. Apart from that, contraception is a good thing, it stops many unwanted pregnancies, and with the current population at more than 6billion, it is needed. More children will result in more poverty and starvation. Yes, abstinence is a good thing, but it does not work. It goes against our biological nature. In highly religious societies where abortion and contraception was banned, (Ireland is a fine example) women often had to drag their daughters to shady back street doctors; alternatively they used knitting needles on themselves. Disease is another issue, contraception does protect from many diseases, but there are always risks.

Quote:

I still strongly disagree with religious fanatics like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and most of the evangelicals who believe in religion without responsibility, but I pray for them. The whole concept of prayer was very foreign to me, but throughout the class I have seen its power firsthand, and now strive to learn more about it and how to do its many different versions.

I’m really glad to hear that you are strongly against these people, and I’m really sure that your prayers give you comfort, it’s a shame your prayers can’t alter their attitudes. Perhaps you should take an active stance against them, as I don’t think preying for them will alter the outcome of their actions.


-----------------
"Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common, Children no longer obey their parents. Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world evidently is approaching." - Assyrian tablet circa 2800 BCE

Quote:

I also realised that the only way Christianity had survived throughout the centuries, was with the use of force, persecution, etc.

Uh, except the very beginning, right? Where it's surivival was almost, what would you call it? A miracle?

Yeah Cod, back that statement up.

I under stand christianity has it's dirty hands from the past but that isn't the riligions fault. Like they say, guns don't kill people, pople with guns kill people. Anywho I belive religion is good for you...to an extent. Beliving in god, alah, Jehova what ever you want to call it, theres nothing wrong with that no matter who you are. Telling someone how great your life is because of this religion is also peachy key. But when people force others to belive just because they think it's right, well then that's just hipocritical. The bible itself says that if you're doing something positive then your fine and hurting people is bad. Common sense right? I wish others saw that too.

Simply Practacing a religion gives people faith amung other things. Most christians belive in themselves because we are tought to if we want good things to happen. This may sound stupid but many people who don't want to belive in religion don't have hopes and dreams of the future either. (I'm not saying everyone) Also christians are tought to belive that suicide is an emortal sin. You kill yourself you automaticaly go to hell. Even cerial killers can be forgiven once they see the light. You kill yourself, your dead you can't say sorry. What I am saying is believing in something good even if it's just for the sake of believing, can actualy hold good things for you.(if you belive in good things)

I feel for those who simply believe in something else or don't at all. Many have been killed and torchered etc. It has happened so much so that many even began blaming the teachings of the religion itself. For instance Christian extreem Hopocrits I feel should go to hell. They act as if practacing the word of god yet hurt and kill people just to get everyone to believe. Did Jesus do this? even once? is this what God wanted at all? NO! if they read that book they holed under their hands so dearly like the clame to have, they would know that what they are doing is wrong. So it isn't always the fault of the teachings of the religion but the fools who really have no clew what they are doing.

Religion doesn't guide me 100%, but leads me in a direction that I can trust most of the time. I'm loosely Christian.

This topic is kind of complicated for me because I have an older sister who doesn't beleive in god, then I have my mother who does but isn't a devout person about it. So I'm kind of weighing my beliefs here. It has gotten me through some tough times sometimes. I'm kind of teetering on the religion scale when it comes to believing or not believing.

Can you guys beleive I was playing Dead or Alive on xbox live and the room I was in had this same debate. What got me was 80% of the people there were on Gods side...that just warms my heart.

Originally Posted by Mystil

Over the years it has lost it's meaning to me. If God can forgive me in doubting his existence that'd be fine I suppose. Before the doubts were setting in, I loved being a christian very much and when I was younger I would "talk to God". That is how much I was into it.

What made you change your mind?

Hmmm. I guess you could say I''m muslim, but not really a strict one. It's really a shame the way a lot of people misunderstand the religion - the ones who think it inspires and condones the blowing up of buildings and people, but far worse are the ones that call themselves muslim and think that the above is actually correct. But enough of that.

I guess my take on my religion is that it provides me with a lot of answers that I'd rather assume to be right than have to figure out all by myself - I'd much rather be doing other things. But I'm liberal in the sense that when something comes up that challenges these beliefs, I don't blinker on past them - I think them over and trust myself enough to come to conclusions that may or may not align with my religious beliefs and still follow them through.

Originally Posted by Godless Cod

Yes, I know sex has always been an issue with the Church; they used to kill people because of it. Apart from that, contraception is a good thing, it stops many unwanted pregnancies,

I'd argue the opposite, and the church obviously does too. Since 1930 unwanted pregnancies have gone up. Because women and men can have sex at any time with contraception with the false idea that it won't result in pregnancy leads to 'mistakes' (they should be welcomed surprises) when the contraceptive fails. This in turn leads to poverty, which has also gone up, and more misguided forms of sex, along with pornography. Abstinance is very hard to live and that is why it is viewed as impossible by the secular community at large. It's not for everybody, but Natural Family Planning (the idea that a woman is naturally infertile for several days during each month) is a more responsible way to avoid preganancy, while still being open to children if God wills it. This has been difficult for me because I was brought up with pornography and masturbation being 'perfectly normal' things, but are very harmful in the long run. Still, NFP is an amazing thing for married couples because it lets the woman know more about her body and cycles (man is the rhythm method totally flawed and outdated), and the sex is AMAZING! Heh.

Originally Posted by Godless Cod

and with the current population at more than 6billion, it is needed. More children will result in more poverty and starvation. Yes, abstinence is a good thing, but it does not work. It goes against our biological nature. In highly religious societies where abortion and contraception was banned, (Ireland is a fine example) women often had to drag their daughters to shady back street doctors; alternatively they used knitting needles on themselves. Disease is another issue, contraception does protect from many diseases, but there are always risks.

As for the population, there is overcrowding in areas, but contraceptives will not solve this problem. Ignorance is the true problem here. If we educate the people of third world countries (not even necessarily within the church), then less pregnancies as a result of rape may occur because some cultures believe that raping virgins is the way to get rid of the AIDS epidemic.
About Ireland, I believe you missed the point? Were you talking about women having to get abortions? That's a whole other issue I won't get into unless it's brought up. At any rate, something as grave a matter as this can never be forced on a society. Even though I use NFP, if it was forced upon me I would have never even thought twice about it. It is a personal decision with a lot of sacrifice involved. The disease issue was covered in my education argument, as most places where AIDS and other diseases are sexually transmitted diseases are at epidemic levels have no idea how these diseases are transmitted.
Of course, there are also exceptions to every rule within the church. In dire situation where a mother is diagnosed that she would die if she had a child, for the safety of the mother it may be okay (depending on the diocese) to use contraceptives or have surgery.
With all this, I'm no expert, but I felt I had to say something against your arguments because I would have said the same things about two years ago, and have since been convinced to the contrary. I imagine that you have alreay fought your battle and are comfortable with where you stand, and good for you for that.

Originally Posted by Godless Cod

I’m really glad to hear that you are strongly against these people, and I’m really sure that your prayers give you comfort, it’s a shame your prayers can’t alter their attitudes. Perhaps you should take an active stance against them, as I don’t think preying for them will alter the outcome of their actions.

I've sent MANY a letter to these gentlemen voiving my discontent to their misguided and intrinsically moronic views toward God.

t(-_-t)

Quote:

Yeah Cod, back that statement up.

Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)
Ancient Pagans

* As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
* Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
* Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
* Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]
* Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
* Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
* In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
* In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
* The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
[DO19-25]

Mission

* Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
* Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
* Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
* 15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
* 16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]

Crusades (1095-1291)

* First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
* Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]
* 9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
* Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]
* after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]
* Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
* Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
(In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
* The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horro