Clinton calls for socialized health care

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

Americans CAN'T save enough for health care - but not because their retards!

Oh irony. Do you not know any bounds

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Gech, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I want to see my fellow Americans be able to afford the best health care the world can get them. Bad sadly, in a nation as great as ours, it's an impossibility.

Fair enough! =o I've said my piece.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

I heard on NPR on my way in to work that the Northeast has the highest cost for healthcare. Yet still, we're willing to pay all that money for a hope of a better system.

Ahahaha. Geez. You guys already have to pay ridiculous costs of living other than that. I'd accredit it to the population density, since I'm sure the west coast is pretty bad too.

Originally Posted by Gechmir

Ahahaha. Geez. You guys already have to pay ridiculous costs of living other than that. I'd accredit it to the population density, since I'm sure the west coast is pretty bad too.

Precisely! The population density is pretty rough up here, so it adds to the stress of the system.

I am pretty sure they said that the southwest had the lowest costs (due to many, many rural areas).

I don't mind paying such a large chunk of my pay to The Man if it helps others. =D

Originally Posted by Gechmir

Oh irony. Do you not know any bounds

Gechmir, if the best you had considering my argument was an ad hominem attack due to a TYPO at seven in the morning, I must kindly tell you to put down the Ayn Rand and find a new means of keeping yourself busy; debate is not your forte.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

.......By instituting socialism.

Shut the fuck up, fuck boy. The fuck is wrong with you?

Yes, because using an outdated, archaic system that clearly doesn't work is superior to allowing one aspect of socialism into a massive democratic machine. Just because socialists used it, doesn't mean its a bad idea. They want to implement socialized healthcare, like about a dozen democratic states have, and guess what. Not flying the red flag. Grow up.

I think that it is un-Amarican that a sizeable portion of our taxpayers are incapable of affording to take a sick day.

healthy consumers grease the wheel of capitalism.

I like how NP inexplicably turned into Golgo-13 just now =D

the fuck

NP you're better than this. Is it because we all propped your journal? You want to punish us for liking you, don't you.

I argued my points and got some kind of 'infraction' levied against me, so I figured my arguments were considered trolling and removed them in order to rectify the problem.

Yeah, it was arguing your points. Not the 'shut the fuck up, fuck boy' bit. Maybe if you didn't have to be a bitch when you're clearly wrong, this sort of thing wouldn't happen.

How in the hell am I clearly wrong? All your argument amount to is 'socialism isn't bad because some people can't afford health insurance, therefore we should force everyone else to pay for a universal health care program that is imposed on the entire country by threat of imprisonment, loss of wealth and property, and/or death.'

As opposed to imposing loss of wealth and/or death on people due to their (sigh) not being able to afford health care.

Fuckin' government imposition

If I wanted cops I'd hire my own

tax-sucking vampires I tell you what

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

I argued my points and got some kind of 'infraction' levied against me, so I figured my arguments were considered trolling and removed them in order to rectify the problem.

Even still, it's a pretty bitch move for someone so hardcore that he'd rather let American citizens die than be included in his health insurance group.

Because that's what health insurance is, you know. Many people paying in so that a few people who can't afford chemo treatments wholly on their own can get them. It's already socialism, this is just a wider net.

bitchbastard

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As opposed to imposing loss of wealth and/or death on people due to their (sigh) not being able to afford health care.

I'm not imposing shit on them -- they're imposing it on themselves by not having the education and job skills necessary to earn enough money in order to afford their own health care. If you've now determined that individuals are not responsible for their own health care, what else are they now not responsible for? Are they also not responsible for feeding themselves? Their children? Housing themselves? Educating their own children?

What's the purpose of having private anything at all if you aren't responsible for anything you might not be able to afford?

I don't know man, all the other first-world countries can take care of their citizens' health without turning into cold war-era Russia. If America can't, then isn't this a striking, almost treasonous, criticism of the American economy and political might?

We've weathered much worse and came out smelling like a rose. What are a few runny noses going to do?

The United States has a population of over 300 million. No single country in Western Europe has to deal with that many people in their health care systems.
The costs of establishing and maintaining a national health care system for a population that size would rapidly become prohibitive, if not be so immediately.

It's a shame that, as NP had said before, that nobody cares about the Tenth Amendment anymore. If people really want government to pay for their health care, they would really do well to reacquaint themselves with it.

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon

The United States has a population of over 300 million. No single country in Western Europe has to deal with that many people in their health care systems.
The costs of establishing and maintaining a national health care system for a population that size would rapidly become prohibitive, if not be so immediately.

This is right, yes. Too large a nation for a "national" health care system.

BUT:

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It's a shame that, as NP had said before, that nobody cares about the Tenth Amendment anymore. If people really want government to pay for their health care, they would really do well to reacquaint themselves with it.

Sure. Tenth Amendment. Some states (like Deni said) are standing up and doing their own system.

I have a feeling that because this is more of a new thing, it won't succeed right away. And it may fail! But it's a step in the right direction.

There's a serious problem with our health care system. No matter how you slice it, it needs to get resolved.

(I have no idea why NP thinks everyone should be rich and have all the opportunities available to them.)

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

I'm not imposing shit on them -- they're imposing it on themselves by not having the education and job skills necessary to earn enough money in order to afford their own health care.

NP, at the risk of getting an infraction, I have to say you are talking out of your ass, sir. It's infuriating to listen to people like you who think that those who have no insurance are losers who have no skills. What about people who work but their job does not pay for their family's coverage, only the employee? What about people who are self-employed, earn a good wage, but they or their child has a pre-existing condition and they are outright refused the coverage? What about those who have a pre-existing condition, try to get their own coverage, are approved, but only if they pay a severely inflated rate (like in excess of $1500 a month)?

The American health insurance industry is broken. To say that it should remain as is says to me you have never REALLY experienced what state the industry is in. You have never hung up the phone with an insurance company after having told them of a 4 year old health issue, only to have them tell you outright that you will not be approved. You have never hung up the phone from the company that is supposed to be insuring you, after they tell you they are not approving a surgery you have already had and they previously told you they would cover. You have never had collection agencies coming after you for thousands of dollars you shouldn't owe, but apparently do because some bastard at the insurance company doesn't care that your CHILD needed a fucking biopsy. If you think I am now talking out of my ass, I can scan and send you copies of the bills they still hound me for. And this was with insurance. Do you know what it's like to have a sick child at home and collection agencies calling and threatening you because the company who was supposed to cover costs didn't? No, I suppose you don't. And as much as I'd like to punch you in your smug face, I hope you never do.

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Educating their own children?

Um, last time I checked, we had a public school system in the U.S., jackass.

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What's the purpose of having private anything at all if you aren't responsible for anything you might not be able to afford?

I don't think something as important as health insurance should be private in the first place. It's sinister and evil that something that our lives literally depend on is run by corporations for profit.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

(I have no idea why NP thinks everyone should be rich and have all the opportunities available to them.)

Well clearly NP values capitalism over socialism. He believes that opportunity and quality of life should be earned and therefore remain unavailable to the masses, at large.

Many people seem to believe that the the united states government cannot truly afford to give everyone the same quality of life with of a high standard of living, so only a select few should be able to benefit from it. Healthcare included.

ITs an unfortunate perspective that does nothing to improve the situation.