Are RPG's getting worse every 5 years? (List your top 10 RPG's ever to help!)

Are we talking about them outright sucking or lacking originality?

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Originally Posted by Lukage

Are we talking about them outright sucking or lacking originality?

Lets keep in mind that as games become more and more advanced and more people have access to better technology, the number of games pumped out will increase over time. Of course theres going to be unwanted market flood - theres less risk of an investment now than there was in 1985 when not everyone had a NES

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Quote:

Posted by Lukage
Are we talking about them outright sucking or lacking originality?

In many cases, one follows the other. Shadow Hearts 2 for example would have otherwise been an excellent game, but it was destroyed by its tired by-the-numbers storyline. Like so many other games, it started out good, but then the writers got lazy and fell back on the Big Book of RPG Cliches.

I'm just sick and tired of yelling at the screen trying to make the protagonist stop being an idiot, and having my intelligence insulted by plot twists I can see coming a hundred miles away. Seymour turns out to be a bad guy? Gosh, I never would have guessed.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

1. Knights of the Old Republic
2. Suikoden 2
3. Front Mission 3
4. Tales of Symphonia
5. Chrono Trigger
6. Shadow Hearts Covenant
7. Tales of Legendia
8. Dragon Force (this count? Well it does now)
9. Skies of Arcadia
10. Grandia

I'm all over the place in terms of time periods. I can't pick just one. Also that list isn't in any particular order. There will always be good games and bad games, and frankly I haven't had anymore trouble finding good RPGs than I have in the past. The only difference now is that there's more crap out there.

I was speaking idiomatically.

For me I think there should be two lists. One for console games, which although there have been a few games that are decent and new, the better ones seem to be older. One for computer RPGs, which unlike consoles, have been getting better and better as time goes on.

Consoles:
1. Final Fantasy Tactics
2. Final Fantasy IV
3. Chrono Cross
4. Final Fantasy VI
5. Shining Force
6. Valkyrie Profile
7. Final Fantasy
8. Dragon Warrior (honestly, I've never played any of the sequals!)
9. Disgaea
10. Final Fantasy Adventure

Computer: (I'm classifying the XBox games that are on here as Computer games, as they are done with the idea of porting it over anyway. And they are better on the computer anyways. )
1. KOTOR
2. Diablo
3. Baldur's Gate
4. Fable
5. Diablo II
6. KOTOR 2
7. Heroes of Might and Magic 3
8. Neverwinter Nights
9. Good and Evil
10. Dungeon Siege

As far as FF Tactics, I do classify that as an RPG, and very different from Starcraft et al., mainly due to the turn based nature of it's gameplay, as opposed to real-time strategy of the others. I find the focus to be on the story and characters rather than the gameplay itself, which are the meat of Starcraft/Warcraft/Warlords Battlecry/Seven Kingdoms (which are the best in the genre, IMO).

Computer games seem to be going in a completely different direction than consoles, in that they seem to favor more "live action" type elements than the turn based style of consoles. Although recent releases for the PS2 have got me thinking about that. How about The Bard's Tale game, or Champions of Norath, or X-Men Legends? Those are great games, and they are done in the favored "computer style" of Diablo/Dungeon Siege/Nox. Maybe console games will get better in the future, or rather, there might be more of a "blurring" between the genres, so we end up with better games overall. That's my hope.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

1. Xenogears (1998)
2. Suikoden II (1997)
3. Skies of Arcadia Legends (2003)
4. Final Fantasy IX (2000)
5. Baten Kaitos (2004)
6. Final Fantasy Tactics (1998)
7. Alundra (1997)
8. Legend of Mana (2000)
9. Secret of Mana (1993)
10. Chrono Cross (2000)

Honorable mentions:
11. Crystalis (1990, for old time's sake, but it was really good for its time!)
12. Secret of Evermore (1995, poor black sheep of Squaresoft, I enjoyed you!)

It would seem 1995-1999 takes it, but 3 are lying on the cusp of the next group (FF9, LoM, CC, (and Vagrant Story?!) in 2000...woa, that was a crazy good year for Square). I do feel like that was the "golden age" of RPGs for me, I don't know if I'll ever encounter that again. Since 2000 there haven't been many stellar RPGs for my tastes. Even Skies of Arcadia was released originally in 2000, but I never had a DC. This makes Baten Kaitos the only RPG since 2000 that I really got enthused about. I did like FFX, Suikoden III, and Dark Cloud 2, but they would be further down the list and didn't quite have the lasting appeal of anything in the top 10.

I guess you can count me with those of the opinion that the neverending drive for "better" graphics (= more realistic? who knows, but I'd take LoM-style graphics to absolute realism any day) in the new console generations hasn't been kind to RPGs. Maybe video games have become too mainstream for RPGs to really be made like they used to. Perhaps some of the developers' vision is being sacrificed to the need to now push as many copies as you can out the door. Maybe developers' visions simply aren't as good as they used to be. There's just something lacking now and I can't put my finger on it :\

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Elixir

Here's 5. I really can't think of any others which I liked. Just looking at people enjoying titles like Atelier Iris makes me wonder if there's something wrong with me, or whether I'm destined to hate games.

With Atelier Iris, it depends how much you get out of the item-making system (s). I personally had more fun getting every piece of junk onto the shopkeeper's lists than I did the main "RPG"-ish stuff (though the battle system was pretty good...kind of like an improved FFX, with the character-swapping and cutting back on the like-character-kills-like-enemy gameplay). Plus the handdrawn sprites and backgrounds were a well-done rarity from most RPG's nowadays.

You'll be really disappointed if you play this game expecting well-thought-out characters and a deep, insightful plot.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Same here! I was obssessed with trying to make the Chronolex rather than going after Amalgam. The synthesis portion of the game was one of the highlights, although the battle system was rather simple. Most people would be rather turned off by Atelier Iris, what with the anime styled characters and material respawning.
I guess different games would have different criteria for "suckiness".

I mean, Baten Kaitos was gorgeous looking, but out of all the voice acting in the world, Xelha has sinned unforgivably. The card system turned lots of people off, but drew in people like me.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Lord Jaroh

Maybe console games will get better in the future, or rather, there might be more of a "blurring" between the genres, so we end up with better games overall. That's my hope.

FFXII seems to be doing just that. I have high hopes for it and with Famitsu scoring it 40/40, things are looking up.

I forgot to list Grandia. That should make my top ten as well. Not..enough..space...

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I don't have a favorite era. Some come out that are awesome, then there will be a lull. Lulls are good because it helps me catch up playing the decent games that come out at different times.

1. FFVII
2. Star Ocean 2
3. Kingdom
4. Chrono Trigger
5. FFVI
6. Disgaea
7. Wonder Project J
8. Wild ARMs
9. Xenogears
10. Final Fantasy IX

Many other RPGs that could make this list, but these are my top 10, spanning many years.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Megavolt

FFXII seems to be doing just that. I have high hopes for it and with Famitsu scoring it 40/40, things are looking up.

I forgot to list Grandia. That should make my top ten as well. Not..enough..space...

Not that I listen to reviews that much...I judge games on my own terms. Hell, I love all of the Armored Core games, even though most now get dismal reviews. I will give FFXII a chance. Hopefully it delivers, but it does have a lot to make up for in my eyes.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

1. Suikoden II
2. Parasite Eve
3. Thousand Arms
4. Granstream Saga
5. Link to the Past
6. Super Mario RPG
7. Vagrant Story
8. Final Fantasy VI
9. Grandia II
10. Shadow Hearts

Ok so I voted for the wrong time period. Should have voted for the year 1995. I do not think RPG's are going down hill in a sense. However I do feel that developers have ran out of new ideas. We are seeing some of the same elements in RPG's today that we've seen in ones that were before thier time. Including storyline and character development/personality. It's getting to a point for me where I'm not looking for a stunning story in an RPG anymore but rather what kind of battle system will it have. These are becoming better and better. An exception to this is Xenosaga Episode II - the zone break battle system wasn't too great.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I rarely participate in people's nostalgia-fests, but this thread in particular really eats at me. >_<

One of the above posters suggesting that console RPGs are getting worse, and PC games are getting better only shows his experience with PC RPGs is limited and he's only just now getting into the genre (when the total amount of development going into the genre has been decreasing, and the amount of creative developers have been fleeing the field >_<). While console RPGs are continuing to diversify, niche and create entirely new and different experiences for the first time after a long period of time of being weak W-RPG clones.

Ah well...

I personally have a very hard time choosing a top 10; hell I have a hard time choosing a top 40, but I'll list some of my favourites and their time of release:

Wizardry 8 (2002)
Legend of Mana (2000)
SaGa Frontier 2 (2000)
Romancing SaGa: Minstrel's Song (2005)
Ogre Battle 64: Persons of Lordly Caliber (2000)
Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 (1998)
System Shock 2 (1997)
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories (2005)
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter (2003)
Vagrant Story (2000)

I've been playing RPGs since I was introduced to Wizardry 2 at age 5, so I'm not new to the genre. These titles have just managed to impress me the most for their creativity and overall playing experience. Console RPGs still haven't hit their peak, and there was as much crap (actually more) released during the SNES and PSX generations as there is now. I really don't understand the concern of there being a sudden flood of crap when there always has been.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I could be off base not knowing any of you, but my guess is most of us haven't played every RPG in every generation. We tend to focus on the half dozen or dozen RPGs we personally know and base our understandings of the genre during that time on these games.

For example, how could I possibly have a well nformed opinion about the 8 bit era when I missed the first Final Fantasy? And why has no one mentioned a Phantasy Star? Certainly missing that game limits your ability to judge the era.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

And why has no one mentioned a Phantasy Star? Certainly missing that game limits your ability to judge the era.

Maybe no one felt it worthy of making their list. I enjoyed PS2 and PS4, but I don't think they belong in my top 10 RPGs.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Neogin

2000-2003 for me. I'm the type of RPG fan that prefers the "SNES" type of RPG, similar to Golden Sun, or something of that sort. You could say I prefer the GBA/DS type of RPG over the typical RPGs seen on the major platforms.

I hate handheld systems, but I like those type of games too. That's why I love my Gameboy Player.

Anyhow my top 10 rpgs, in no particular order(I don't feel like rating them against each other right now)

Dragon Force
Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Chrono Trigger
Dragon Warrior 4
Star Ocean 2
Valkyrie Profile
Breath of Fire 2
Disgaea

Now, I actually haven't played many PS2 RPGs. I actually have quite a few of them but I haven't gotten around to play them cause of MMORPGs. But I don't think it's really that RPGs are getting worse. It's because their are more rpgs being made so at the same time there are going to be more that suck. It's like this with any type of game that's popularity spawns similar games. I mean for example look at all the horrible GTA clones(I hate GTA anyhow but that's not the point).

Ever since Final Fantasy 7, RPGs have been getting more attention. So if people are trying to pump out more games just because RPGs have a wider fanbase now, of course we're gonna start getting alot of crap games. But there are still the gems out there worth playing amongst it all too.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Rei no Otaku

Maybe no one felt it worthy of making their list. I enjoyed PS2 and PS4, but I don't think they belong in my top 10 RPGs.

My point was actually that a lot of people haven't played the games, though, and hence top ten lists are very arbitrary, mine included. A game isn't like a movie that you can take out in an hour and a half, a song you can hear in three minutes, or a painting you can look at for a minute and a half. Because they are so long most people miss out on a large number of them.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

1. Shadow Hearts II
2. Shadow Hearts
3. Xenogears
4. Suikoden V
5. Suikoden II
6. Final Fantasy Tactics
7. Valkyrie Profile
8. Grandia
9. Breath of Fire III
10. Mario RPG


It's funny, ask me of this a few years ago and my list would have been dominated by SNES era titles. But lately my tastes have changed and I think my focus has been on characters in RPGs more than anything else. My top 10 list seems to reflect this now as it is pretty much ranked as I would rank the cast.

Just to note, I've been playing RPGs for a while as well. Ultima around when I was 5 (1985) and Dragon Warrior (1989) were my first RPGs and I've played nearly every console and quite a few PC RPGs released since those two. Personally I don't believe the quality of RPGs is declining, rather I think the expectations people place on RPGs is ever increasing. I go back and play a lot of those good SNES RPGs and find myself realizing that they really don't have much to offer over current RPGs other than the fact that they introduced the common cliche rather than follow them. I used to feel different, thinking the SNES era was the golden age, but I've since released that I play RPGs simply for the entertainment factor, not to find my next level of enlightenment or something.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

1. Fallout
2. Knights of the Old Republic 2
3. Fallout 2
4. Planescape: Torment
5. Suikoden 2

1995-1999 was the last great age of RPGs, since it was the last time you had a lot of titles that featured interactive narratives.

Somewhere in the mix between Final Fantasy 7, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Knights, and Oblivion, people forgot what roleplaying is all about. (or, as a consequence of them, never knew it)

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

1. Fallout
2. Knights of the Old Republic 2
3. Fallout 2
4. Planescape: Torment
5. Suikoden 2

1995-1999 was the last great age of RPGs, since it was the last time you had a lot of titles that featured interactive narratives.

Somewhere in the mix between Final Fantasy 7, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Knights, and Oblivion, people forgot what roleplaying is all about. (or, as a consequence of them, never knew it)

I can't sum it up any better than that. I miss my decent story lines.

I was speaking idiomatically.

It's not a matter of having a good story, it's having an interactive one. Hentai games have more roleplaying elements than RPGs.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Final Fantasy 5
3. Final Fantasy 4
4. Seiken Densetsu
5. Final Fantasy Tactics
6. Shining Force 2
7. Final Fantasy 7
8. Legend of Mana
9. Fallout

And everything after that doesn't really matter. I'm a big fan of the "old-school" traditional RPGs with the ATB system from Final Fantasy, explaining the large showing of Final Fantasy. I'm all for blending RPGs into other genres, but those that make sense. Pushing it into Seiken Densetsu and Legend of Mana is about as far as I would like RPGs to become in the Action type games. Turn-based strategy games have also always had a place in my heart, explaining the showing of Shining Force 2 (I like all of them, but especially this one) and Final Fantasy Tactics. Newer RPGs.....I dunno, I've lost contact after Final Fantasy 9 becuse I don't own a PS2. From what I've seen, FF10 is bearable but is cutting it close. FF12, from what I hear, completely alienates me. It's, for a lack of better words, "too different". Therefore, I'd have to go with 1990-1995 (even though some of those come later). Fallout was probably the one "true" RPG in its most basic level, playing a single character throughout several scenarios where actions at one point in the game affect those later on down the line.

FELIPE NO

I can't speak generally here, since I'm not your usual gamer and the way I see things is, well, odd. So, an answer to the topic, most true in my case: I grew up. I never even bothered with the underground stuff, maybe unconsciously knowing what I'd find there would be crap to me.

Some favourite RPGs:

Final Fantasy V, VIII
Xenogears
Chrono Cross
Suikoden series
Parasite Eve
Lunar 1-2
Alundra 1-2

My days of delving into a fantasy world through the mind of an ANONYMOUS protagonist are over, I guess. And the days were the late 1995-1999's.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Here are some of my favorite RPGs (not in any particular order):

Shadow Hearts
Shadow Hearts II
Breath of Fire II
Breath of Fire IV
Tales of PHantasia
Vagrant Story

I'm pretty young, and I started to seriously game only a few years ago, even though I was around games for the majority of my life.

That being said, I think I'm a bit biased about the "best" RPGs. I think the 1999-2004 was a great time for RPGs, but that's only because I played most of my favorite RPGs during that time (even the old ones, like Breath of Fire II)

But...dunno, I guess 1994-1999 was the best years...?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by UtopiaNH

I rarely participate in people's nostalgia-fests, but this thread in particular really eats at me. >_<

One of the above posters suggesting that console RPGs are getting worse, and PC games are getting better only shows his experience with PC RPGs is limited and he's only just now getting into the genre (when the total amount of development going into the genre has been decreasing, and the amount of creative developers have been fleeing the field >_<). While console RPGs are continuing to diversify, niche and create entirely new and different experiences for the first time after a long period of time of being weak W-RPG clones.

I've been playing RPGs since I was introduced to Wizardry 2 at age 5, so I'm not new to the genre. These titles have just managed to impress me the most for their creativity and overall playing experience. Console RPGs still haven't hit their peak, and there was as much crap (actually more) released during the SNES and PSX generations as there is now. I really don't understand the concern of there being a sudden flood of crap when there always has been.

My main reasoning behind it is that it seems that Console RPGs seem to be ever-increasing towards the style of "playing a book" rather than actually having an involving playstyle. Lately it seems that the genre revolves around the story more than character development, and choices from the player as well as freedom within the story are becoming very limited. My main concern is that if I wanted a book, I would read a book, which does it much better than a game does. Instead I want a game, that not only has good story and such, but the freedom to have fun within the game.

Computer games rather than console games seem to get this. Look at Oblivion, Fable, the Baldur's Gate games, Dungeon Siege, KOTORs, Neverwinter Nights, etc. etc. All of these gear towards character customization and allowing you to play a character with the freedom you want, while still telling a good story. Console games hardly do that anymore.

I do agree, there has been crap released on all sides of the fence, but it seems to me that the games that stand out on the console side have much better lasting appeal and replay value, just due to the freedom of them. I just don't see the same thing out of Console RPGs. As well, the more "adult" themes of Computer based RPGs appeal to me more than the "cartoony" kids-friendly Console RPGs. Maybe I've just gotten too old, heh.

BTW, I have been truly "in the genre" since Final Fantasy I on the Nintendo, so I do have a lot of experience playing these games to judge for myself what I like, and what I don't like. It seems while trying to "diversify" and "create a new experience", console RPGs in general have been losing something...that it is more than just the story that makes a good RPG. To make it a good experience, you need to be able to set your own mark on the game, rather than be able to conform to what someone tells you your mark should be. They give you the character and tell you more or less to like it or leave it. Computer RPGs give you the story, the world etc, and then have you create a character based on how you want to play, thus letting you experience the game based on your own playstyle, which makes for a far better game overall.

There's nowhere I can't reach.