Revolution or Evolution?

For everyone's sake, and for the sake of keeping the console forums a nicer place (as well as post stuff RELEVENT TO WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT), everyone can vent their anger out here. Well, not anger, but their point of view. Does this coming gaming generation need a revolution? Or is an evolution just enough?

Don't get what I mean?

Nintendo states that these days graphics aren't enough. They came up with the Revolution control and the DS to reinstate their point. Sony and Microsoft want gamers to experience a gaming world so real, so advanced that the amount of power within their consoles could emulate a game about Life. Is this a revolution in this sort of sense? Is the Revolution just an evolution of the DS/GBA-GCN connectivity?

Do we need better graphics, physics and AI? Or do we need new approaches in our gaming life?

Discuss discuss.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

We don't need better graphics. What we need is better game design. Gameplay wise, there aren't many next generation games that feature many things that can't be done in this generation. I hope the Revolution opens up need gameplay ideas as the DS did, though I bet the lack of hardware power will bite them in the ass.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

There will always be use for better graphics, but what designers need to start doing is make good use of them and design their games so that the graphics support the game and not the other way around.

More credit also need to be given to sound design in games by media and players. Hardly anyone notices the soundscape, but done badly it'll ruin the game anyway. Good soundtrack, great sound effects, simply good sound can make the difference between a decent and an excellent gaming experience.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by guyinrubbersuit

We don't need better graphics. What we need is better game design. Gameplay wise, there aren't many next generation games that feature many things that can't be done in this generation. I hope the Revolution opens up need gameplay ideas as the DS did, though I bet the lack of hardware power will bite them in the ass.

But (I'm only speaking from what I know) with PS3 and Xbox360 having more power they can probably have the ability to extend already existing genres.

But I agree with what you are saying. Do we really need all that extra power to essentially play an Xbox/PS2 game with supped up graphics? Do we really need AI to blur the lines of computer AI to humans?

And with Revo having roughly two times the power of the GCN there's no reason why Revo games will look bad. Sure against the other two it'll look shoddy... But it's good enough (or is it?).

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I think Revolution will open up new gaming ideas, as Nintendo already showcased that in the trailer for their next-gen console. The idea behind the controller is a bold one, but I think ultimately Revolution will not fair as well compared to PS3 or X360. The lack of a solid gaming library will be a big problem (look at the DS) as well traditional gamers will not likely be able to adapt to the new form of gameplay proposed by Nintendo. Look at the sales figure for PSP, the mini behemoth apparently generated US1.6 billion in 2005, and that was more than X360 and DS combined.

Anyway, back to the topic, it's true that graphics are not enough to determind the success or failure of a game/console. Clever marketing is key, as well as combining as many functions as possible into the console.

PSP = music, movie, gaming = huge success
iPod = music, movie, pictures = mega success

It's the same idea of a cellphone packed with music function and 3.0mega pixel camera; do we really need all of them in the phone? Not particularly, but it just gives bragging rights. Maybe if the Revolution incoprates all of these functions into itself, and bombard the media with commercials and publicity stunts, Nintendo *might* be able to come back on top as king of all consoles.

My two cents.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by horlique

I think Revolution will open up new gaming ideas, as Nintendo already showcased that in the trailer for their next-gen console. The idea behind the controller is a bold one, but I think ultimately Revolution will not fair as well compared to PS3 or X360. The lack of a solid gaming library will be a big problem (look at the DS) as well traditional gamers will not likely be able to adapt to the new form of gameplay proposed by Nintendo. Look at the sales figure for PSP, the mini behemoth apparently generated US1.6 billion in 2005, and that was more than X360 and DS combined.

Anyway, back to the topic, it's true that graphics are not enough to determind the success or failure of a game/console. Clever marketing is key, as well as combining as many functions as possible into the console.

PSP = music, movie, gaming = huge success
iPod = music, movie, pictures = mega success

It's the same idea of a cellphone packed with music function and 3.0mega pixel camera; do we really need all of them in the phone? Not particularly, but it just gives bragging rights. Maybe if the Revolution incoprates all of these functions into itself, and bombard the media with commercials and publicity stunts, Nintendo *might* be able to come back on top as king of all consoles.

My two cents.

Well this thread ain't only about Nintendo. I'd like to hear whether people want a revolution or just an evolution.

DS lacks a solid library of games? I don't know about that one. Have you seen the games on the DS? As for the PSP sales figures, really? I've been told the DS was selling better due to them attracting new gamers. Anyone know the actual scenario?

If the DS was any example, I think the world is ready for a Revolution. But will they want it more than an Evolution?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Some want change, alot of us are expecting a revolution...

I'm actually happy that Nintendo is doing this kind of this. Having good graphics really don't mean a damn thing if your gameplay doesn't support the game. Otherwise, it's just a failed game.

But of course, you'll have those people who <3 good graphics and could careless about gameplay. They'll reccomend it to their friends, they'll buy it. Be moved by the graphics. And then that shit game becomes a popular failed game.

Like Halo 2. Good graphics. Not as a good as the first on gameplay wise.

FELIPE NO

DS is absolutely dominating PSP in Japan, it's the fastest selling system of all time, and people are camping out for DS's every week as a new shipment comes in. It's also a decent amount ahead in Europe but only slightly ahead in the US, with PSP slowly catching up there. horlique was either just talking out of his arse, or has been misinformed.

Damn, now I must comment on the topic!

Revolution or evolution? Why not both?

Nintendo Revolution will be a revolution, but it will still have new graphics. "Better graphics is just the entry fee to next generation" sez Iwata. Heck, we'll even have the option to use the classic control scheme too! Best of both worlds! Like the DS.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Both are pretty bad!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Infernal Monkey

Both are pretty bad!

Dude, Space Invaders Colossi style would kick ass.

And please stop saying "The Revolution will be a Revolution." That's the corniest shit I've ever heard.

What the Revolution will be, is a gaming console which is taking an alternative route to gaming because they can't keep up with Sony or Microsoft. Nintendo's big decision to take an alternative route is ultimately because they're wanting to try something unique which will appeal to Nintendo fans and people curious of what they're capable of.

Meanwhile, the rest of the population sides with either Microsoft or Sony because it's pretty straightfoward. PS3 will be releasing DMC4, MGS4, a Tekken, FPS the game, and a bunch of other awesome stuff. By then the 360 will actually have 1 game worth playing, and will be established. Nintendo makes Mario Rehash#12 which will appeal to the kids, fanboys, and older people who stay true to their company, with a controller which won't be usable at kiosk's because they're either chained to the kiosk like a puzzle or not there at all.

When it's released, people will buy it, and it will be a console. It won't be a revolution or anything amazing like that, and neither was the 360 nor will the PS3 be. They're video gaming consoles, but new. That's nothing revolutionary, that's just gaming.

Everyone has their expectations set WAY too high, and I look foward to RABicle and Grubdog uploading their "australianshurtebworker.mpeg" videos once it's released.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Nintendo fans, please don't get me wrong, but I think Nintendo is moving fowards neither to an Evolution nor a Revolution but instead a "UN"evolution.

Up to this point I can't figure out what they are trying to do with this.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

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PS3 will be releasing DMC4, MGS4, a Tekken

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Nintendo makes Mario Rehash#12

It appears sequels are only bad when Nintendo makes them, eh?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Yuna

Nintendo fans, please don't get me wrong, but I think Nintendo is moving fowards neither to an Evolution nor a Revolution but instead a "UN"evolution.

Up to this point I can't figure out what they are trying to do with this.

By "UN"evolution are you saying that Nintendo are going backwards, or staying in the same place, or choice C?

Up to this point I can't figure out what you're trying to say with this.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Deguello

It appears sequels are only bad when Nintendo makes them, eh?

They haven't managed to ruin MGS or DMC. Do you see Snake in other games? Snake Golf? Raiden Tennis? Metal Gear Kart? No, I don't think so. They haven't done this with MGS, Capcom haven't done it with DMC, and Namco are very smart. They haven't fucked up Tekken they've just lost hype for it.

Mario sold out, face it. When you consider the amount of Mario games and the amount of real Mario games, it's depressing. There's more $$$ Mario games than actual Mario games available. Sunshine was disappointing, and for there to be another Mario game which isn't a cash whore it's going to be on the Revolution. With that controller.

I'm going to laugh when somebody tries to jump in Mario and accidentally smashes their tv.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Actually, Solid Snake was a playable character in Hudson's DreamMix TV World Fighters for PS2 and GC. Also had Bomberman, Goemon, Simon Belmont, a Gradius ship and Optimus Prime. AKA: Best game ever.



I think he was also in Evolution Skateboarding. And Dante was thrown in the PS2 Viewtiful Joe for no reason.

Edit: holy crap-o!
Mario Lawn Bowls comin' soon.

FELIPE NO

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Do you see Snake in other games?

Metal Gear Acid, Dream Mix TV Fighters

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Capcom haven't done it with DMC

Dante was in the shoddy port of Viewtiful Joe 1 on the PS2

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They haven't fucked up Tekken they've just lost hype for it.

Tekken's Nina Williams in Death by Degrees.


All are punishéd.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Yeah, but that's different. They're in a couple of other titles which aren't the main series, where as Mario is everywhere.

I mean, Dance Dance Revolution Mario Mix. Come on. Mario Kart, Tennis, Soccer, Pinball, Mario Paint, Mario Tetris, the list is never ending. They've slapped him on every single game just in hope of it to sell better. It does work, but it isn't a nice way of representing your console mascot.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Who really cares? Most of those games are awesome.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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Mario Tetris

In your flailing about you have managed to bring up a game that does not exist.

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Yeah, but that's different. They're in a couple of other titles which aren't the main series, where as Mario is everywhere.

Hypocrisy acheived! The gist of what I'm getting from your defensively impossible position is that it is okay to fuck a goat (make a spinoff) as long as you only do it once.

Mario is a "goatfucker."

Despite having fucked goats, those three you mention somehow avoid the goatfucker label.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Wait, what?

acheived? What the hell. Dr. Mario is indeed a game, and is indeed a Tetris clone with Mario in it. I couldn't think of the title but there it is.

You don't seem to understand the simple fact that Mario has his own game in almost every genre, and that's bad. And you're trying to go ahead and tell me that Snake in another game, or Dante in another game, makes them equally as bad? That doesn't make much sense now, does it?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

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You don't seem to understand the simple fact that Mario has his own game in almost every genre, and that's bad.

Why? That's what we don't understand.

I was speaking idiomatically.

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You don't seem to understand the simple fact that Mario has his own game in almost every genre, and that's bad. And you're trying to go ahead and tell me that Snake in another game, or Dante in another game, makes them equally as bad? That doesn't make much sense now, does it?

The fact that they even attempted to do so in the first place makes them as "bad," because the idea is the same. To make a franchise character popular. I don't mind spinoffs really. But it is unfair to treat Mario any differently just because he's been doing it longer. Hence the goatfucker argument.

And the claim of "selling out" is horseshit. Nintendo still owns Mario. If appearing in another genre is "selling out," then the list of the guilty would be long indeed.

All are punishéd.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Because Nintendo are no longer putting quality into their titles.

As much "fun" as they want in their "childish - but not only for kids!" titles, it still boils down to the fact that they could have been putting their time and effort into a better Mario game. I mean, Mario Sunshine, lol. I thought Sunshine was terrible and not even up to Mario 64's level. It managed to get decent scores, people loved it, why? Because it's a Mario title.

I'm sure half of these Gamecube owners wouldn't buy a soccer title if it were released(which probably won't happen; Gamecube is dead.) but they easily manage to do so when it has Mario and crew in it. Why? No, not because it's a soccer game, not because it has an objective or anything logical like that, but because it has Mario in it! Instantly Nintendo owners flush themselves to Electronics Boutique to pick up a game that they know basically nothing about except for it being "a sports game" and "a sports game with Nintendo characters" in it.

I considered Mario 64 a good title. With the amount of levels, level design, and what they managed, it was a HUGE leap from the SNES Mario games. But then Sunshine comes out, and it's what, a polished 64 title where you go around cleaning sewage off of walls? Oh please.

And that's the thing. Another Mario title will come out, and so will another, and another, and another. Except they won't be Mario titles they'll just be games with Mario shoved in them. When the Revolution get's it's first true Mario title, it'll use that thing you call a controller, and it'll somehow manage to integrate it with the game. Not because they want to or anything, but because it's already there. Instead of working around it, they're now forced to work with it.

What I'm confused over is how this is meant to be so revolutionary. It's a gaming system made by Nintendo. It's expected to be released the same time as the PS3, and people by then will have their revisioned 360's and games, or be waiting on hype for the PS3 and what it has to offer. There's the Nintendo fanboys, but as it's the last console to be released in the next generation console market it probably won't do as well as the others.

Take the xbox, it was released in what, 2002? It came last, and it also came last in sales, game ratings, basically everything. There's a few xbox titles worth owning, yes, but a "few" doesn't logically warrant you buying a console for them. The xbox failed and was pretty much marketed to hell via Microsoft, and that's how they got off their feet. Now the Revolution's going to be released last, and people's patience is going to wear thin. Why would you want to wait for something you're unsure of, when you already know what others have to offer? It doesn't make much sense. You can enjoy Nintendo and teir titles a smuch as you want, but they'll probably end up releasing 1 awesome game every 7 months, much like the Gamecube did.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

FELIPE NO

Wow. Never before has so many words delivered so little content. Your chittering has put forth no point other than you think Mario has "sold out," which is a meaningless statement, and you appear to believe that the only games being developed for the Revolution are ones with Mario in them.

Both are wrong, despite your belief that Mario has "gone down in quality."

Congratulations on making this thread a trainwreck, using only the power of your mind, or lack thereof.

Most amazing jew boots

That's more than likely an indication that you didn't read what I said.

Mario has sold out, and you know damn well that he has. Your argument of "Snake is in another game" and "Dante is in a mangled(lol, wrong) version of Viewtiful Joe on the PS2" doesn't live up. A couple of gaming mascots appearing in different games is insignificant to the amount of genres Mario has and what Nintendo have made him into - a cash project.

It isn't meaningless at all. I apologize if I hurt your Nintendo pride, but Mario is in every genre possible, or close to. Congratulations on failing to deliver, and dishing out rubbish that only a typical fanboy would produce.

gb2/warproom

Jam it back in, in the dark.