[PS3] Cooking Guide: Can't Decide What To Eat? PROTIP: THIS IS THE MGS4 THREAD

Wordy word word word, word word word. Words. Words.

Spoiler:

You could be right about Ocelot. I don't know. This game actually didn't help simplify that plot point at all... In fact, this game honestly just makes it even more convoluted than it ever was previously. It would have been better off if they had just continued with the "Ocelot is Liquid!" plot point, rather than add the whole hypnosis shtick to it in the ending.

I was mostly going by what the database says (which people say is inaccurate anyway...) that Liquid really did take him over in MGS2 but that Liquid promptly had the arm removed afterwards because he didn't like having his mind under another's control-- and then underwent hypnosis as Big Boss claims in the ending to continue tricking the Patriots without really being under Liquid's control.

How this "tricked" the Patriots I'm not sure. Honestly, I wish they would just outright say what the deal with "Liquid Ocelot" is in a interview or something because everyone seems to have their own ideas about it which doesn't lead to as much closure as I (and others) would have hoped for. =/

I've recently been playing this and I have to say that other than the story, I was really surprised how well MGS4 supports sdtv's.
I can clearly read all the subtitles and menus when I'm playing in my room from a distance.
So far I'm running and gunning just to get through the story and up to act 2.

Spoiler:

Laughing Octopus is a bitch with that roll of hers

Well, I beat the game last night...

All I gotta say, is what a well done game. It answered everything I questioned, and really gave everything closure.

As for the ending...

Spoiler:

I honestly thought Snake would kill himself. If not to stop the virus in his body from becoming a plague, then to end the misery and pain he's felt for years. It was great to see Big Boss alive and give his 'son' a farewell, and bring things to a close.

Just filling up this space so i can lead up to the spoiler tag, la la la la - ok so this is what i perceived about Ocelot.

Spoiler:

Like Big Boss said to Snake at the end about Ocelot going through mental suggestion about him "being Liquid" is that Liquid never did take over his body. Big Boss went on talking about something like nanomachines and Liquids arm that was put in place of Ocelots never could resemble another identity let alone be someone else completely.

I think Ocelot did this as a ploy to further keep the Patriots watchful eye on him. And in the end i think, he was being exactly like The Boss (his mother) like she sacrificed herself and everything she was for her countries ideals. He told Snake that this is exactly how he planned it from the beginning, everything would start over. Though he also wanted Big Boss' idealism that still made him the enemy so to speak. And Big Boss himself realized he was wrong, this isn't what The Boss wanted.

So in the end of it all i couldn't see him truly as bad as we thought of him to be, he just really wanted to follow in Big Bosses footsteps while trying to keep The Bosses legacy to co-exist with the other. Ocelot really looked up to Big Boss and that's exactly how he got started in all this when he heard Liquid, one of the sons of Big Boss was doing that stuff on Shadow Moses and decided to join his ranks. That's just the way i thought of it to be.

As for Drebin giving the shot to Snake to get Big Boss at the end, i never thought of it that was but it makes sense.

Finally tore myself away from GTA IV long enough to actually give this game a sit down and fought my way through Acts 1 and 2.

First off, oh my god I suck at stealthan gaem. I'm not really having an issue staying alive, but I'm terrible at taking enemies down without alerting the entire county. I've finally just given up on even attempting CQC or stickups and just safely tranq everybody from a distance followed by an angry knife to the face. I've probably spent two thirds of my game time lying face down waiting for alerts to go away.

And man, the enemies have really heightened their IQs. I find myself simultaneously cussing and in awe of the AI every time a soldier kicks me to see if I really am a dead body. Then of course it's ! and five more minutes of running around, cussing, and finding a place to lay down.

As for the story so far:

Spoiler:

Drebin is best character.
What the hell Campbell is a dirty old man.
Kojima has a five year old's sense of humor (haha poop.)
Snake is mean to little girls
Why didn't Raiden cut Vamp's frikken head off after that fight?

Yeah, that's about it so far.

Y'know, I finally beat it, and I must say that this is easily the worst MGS game I've ever played.

I won't even go into the plot itself, how many weird plot holes need filling, or how it's convoluted, trips over itself at every available opportunity, or is just plain full of itself. It's worse than 2. Not a lie. Buttttt....you've all heard that before. At least the presentation itself, graphically and aurally, is superb, but what's wrapped up in that stuff is some prime bullshit.

But the actual, y'know, GAMEPLAY here is failure to the nth degree. Almost every segment is completely linear. There's one exit for most areas. The paths that ARE there don't really leave a lot to the imagination or present options on how you're gonna handle it. Act 1 handled level design the best, but fuck if it didn't turn to shit shortly after. At least the last three major games did this properly. You know all that shit from the trailers about Octocamo and neat uses like the statue pose? Yeah, that shit SURE CAME UP A LOT. Such a neat idea, so wasted.

And the pacing of the actual gameplay segments was so off. Sure, cutscenes. We know. Lots of 'em. But seperating an act like Act 3 into three equal 15 minute sized chunks with 20+ minute long scenes inbetween doesn't ramp up intensity, it's bad pacing. It's TERRIBLE pacing. Hell, it's fucking BROKEN.

Some of the combat options you're given are weak. How many of the plethora of guns did anyone really use? I think the game told me I had fourty of the damn things and I remember using no more than 8. One lethal pistol, one tranq one, the mosin, the m14, the M4,

Spoiler:

the rail gun

, the stun knife, and the chaff grenades. Most of that other shit? Useless. And speaking of which, why can you BUY THINGS? Honestly here, part of the reason you'll be sneaking and knifing and so forth is because you have to get by with what you get. But now I can buy tranq ammo? Yeah, that changes on BBH, but still. The whole game changes because you can be far more liberal with your supplies.

So yeah, the actual gameplay sections of the barely-qualifies-as-an-interactive-experience are shit. Completely and utterly. It's a shame the most fun I had was when

Spoiler:

you piloted Rex. The controls worked there, surprisingly, and for the most part, the combat in Rex against Ray was loads of fun. Shame there isn't a whole game of that.

I won't complain about the story. That's a love or hate it deal, and I most certainly belong to the last camp. If I rant about that, it'd be pages and pages. But I'm interested in how anyone can enjoy this as a GAME. It seriously boggles my fucking mind.

Originally Posted by Grain Overflow

I won't even go into the plot itself, how many weird plot holes need filling, or how it's convoluted, trips over itself at every available opportunity, or is just plain full of itself.

I dunno MGS2 took me a couple times to even understand most of the things going on. Even Kojima himself that was probably one thing he regretted making the story maybe too complex. I'm trying to think of one thing in MGS4 where there was a plot hole or i didn't understand, i thought the game wrapped up everything throughout the whole series story wise and actually made some sense.

Quote:

But the actual, y'know, GAMEPLAY here is failure to the nth degree. Almost every segment is completely linear. There's one exit for most areas. The paths that ARE there don't really leave a lot to the imagination or present options on how you're gonna handle it. Act 1 handled level design the best, but fuck if it didn't turn to shit shortly after.

I agree it was pretty much linear and sometimes the loading screens needed you to confirm that "yes i wanna continue!" but after my second time through i found some new areas, mainly South America and Europe parts i hadn't been through before. The difficulty changes rotues i think as well such as the following that resistance member. Middle East though i thought was great, but i totally agree it's pretty much linear and you're pointed in the way to go. But hey it beats spending 80% of a game on some offshore oil facility.

Quote:

Some of the combat options you're given are weak. How many of the plethora of guns did anyone really use? I think the game told me I had fourty of the damn things and I remember using no more than 8. One lethal pistol, one tranq one, the mosin, the m14, the M4,

Spoiler:

the rail gun

, the stun knife, and the chaff grenades. Most of that other shit? Useless. And speaking of which, why can you BUY THINGS? Honestly here, part of the reason you'll be sneaking and knifing and so forth is because you have to get by with what you get. But now I can buy tranq ammo? Yeah, that changes on BBH, but still. The whole game changes because you can be far more liberal with your supplies.

Chose your poison? On The Boss Extreme and maybe Big Boss Hard as you know ammo overall is ridiculously limited to other ammo quantities than the previous difficulties. And there is also a few more weapons to unlock through certain gameplay conditions. This is where i found the game to be at its most fun, the different styles you can play and the conditions if you ever felt so compelled to accomplish. The solar gun is hysterical to use especially when Snake recharges and The Patriot which i have yet to unlock seems really nice. I'd have to agree that there is a lot of other weapons one will probably never touch but i guess it goes along with the type of gamer are you the collector type or just happy with what you work with. I did find some better guns to play with after playing awhile such as the sniper rifle the Kojima recommends, before that i never really spent a lot of time in Drebin's shop i guess. As for the chaff grenades, they seemed pretty much useless until Act 4 at certain parts. Can't even buy from Drebin.

Quote:

I won't complain about the story. That's a love or hate it deal, and I most certainly belong to the last camp. If I rant about that, it'd be pages and pages. But I'm interested in how anyone can enjoy this as a GAME. It seriously boggles my fucking mind.

I can say i enjoyed it overall, with a few disgruntled areas such as areas being linear and the confirmation of continuing in next area. There were a few more things but for me the positives outweighed the negatives. I can see how people won't like it much cause its pretty much a different kind of game on its own than from the series which can either be a good or bad thing. Shit i tried playing MGS2 and MGS3 again and i was angered cause i didn't have full control of the camera and the pressure sensitive first person aiming/shooting, i guess that took more skill.

After playing it through 3 times i'm kind of all MGS'd out for the moment. I'll try The Boss Extreme next time after i take a break from it.

Originally Posted by cloud baka

But hey it beats spending 80% of a game on some offshore oil facility.

Never thought I'd say this, but no. No it doesn't. The thing about Big Shell and Shadow Moses and so forth is that in order to keep you progressing in one relatively limited area, level design had to be clever and had to allow for all sorts of situations. Here, not so much. It's very much point A to point B and it alters the thinking and way you progress as such.

Quote:

Chose your poison? On The Boss Extreme and maybe Big Boss Hard as you know ammo overall is ridiculously limited to other ammo quantities than the previous difficulties. And there is also a few more weapons to unlock through certain gameplay conditions.

Yeah, it's more limited, but the only real time you'll have issues is if you're not going to use lethal weapons or focus on using things you can't buy. That's more of a gameplay choice you're making rather than how the game presents situations to you. You can either make it harder on yourself or not, but the fact that you CAN do it changes the entire way the game is played fundamentally if you're just not going to limit your own options for whatever reason (be it emblem gathering, prefered playstyle, whatnot). And it's a change I reallllllllllly don't like.

Unlockables, to me, aren't an excuse for bad gameplay decisions or design. If someone wants to go back and play it again to get it, sure. More power to them, but if the experience itself isn't worth replaying because I'm not having any fun, the unlockables seem completely useless to me.

The rest of your post is a well thought out opinion, so I can't really bash it, but there's some stuff I disagree with otherwise. I've just been completely let down by this game is every single way possible, and I wasn't even expecting all that much. It's just more than a little annoying. There's just so much fundamentally wrong with it from several directions that I do not understand it's overwhelming praise.

I was just mostly making conversation, i didn't want to seem like i was coming off to defend it in its entirely or bash what you had to say cause you have good valid points. For the sake of me being redundant though, i agree mostly with what you brought up, the linear gameplay didn't leave much to exploring except probably the first time through. When you play it again and again you can go straight from one are to another with ease. The loading and cutscenes, although they were good, there were some parts it slowed gameplay and pretty much in some situations the mood we were in.

Also the gun variety, there is so many pistols and assault rifles.. don't think many would try them all out if there is one you can pretty much customize to do everything even double as a shotgun for short range encounters or a grenade launcher. The only time i think i was forced to try out a newer gun was my first play through i ran out of bullets with my M4 Custom with Raging Raven. I didn't think to buy more at Drebin's cause i wanted to save up points and i switched to another that held like 200-300 rounds at a time so i wouldn't be re-loading regularly. But overall i still loved the game, just thought i'd bring up some alternative points.

Anyways, i came across some Japanese site through Kotaku, i wish i could read it.. and saw some weird pictures mostly this one:

and.. gonna spoiler it just for the sake of it possibly being a spoiler - it's of Laughing Beauty:

Spoiler:

WTF.. i dunno how or where that Sunny and Naomi picture was taken. Here's the site if anyone is interested Hatimaki Blog - MGS4, it's got some more Laughing Beauty and other weird images as well as a video of even more. Just thought it was a weird thing to share.

Oh yeah don't know if anyone noticed but during Act 4.. (nothing spoiled story wise)

Spoiler:

I never really done this before but just before going into the lower ventilation shaft in Shadow Moses in the beginning i somehow moved the camera to over the top and Snake went on a trip about it saying "Over-the-top view, yeah, just like old times. Over the top." and was awarded Drebin Points like flashbacks, i never seen this recorded so its new to me.

EDIT: Oh yeah another thing i forgot to add to the top of the post. Is it me or does it look like Mei Ling has man hands? LOL i like Mei Ling, she's cute she just seemed to have had abnormally large hands for a lady. Gotta see the ending to see what i mean.

I would have to say that even though this game is very movie-like just like MGS2, I think the the gameplay is very good, and the story finishes solid snake's narrative solidly. I enjoyed the new characters and the cutscenes are very well done, plus the music is as great as it's always been. The small sounds like bullets whizzing by and ambient noise is amazing. It really should be played with a 5.1 sound system.

Just my 2 cents I guess.

I can sorta see where Skills are going.
Looking only at the gameplay, MGS4 is somewhat shallow. I had great use of the OctoCam, but the Solid Eye was almost solely used for the nifty overhead map. I only found use for NV at two occations. One where the game almost asks you to use it, and the other one in the beginning and middle of Act 4.

However, I found MGS4 to be a very rewarding experience because of the combination of the story and the gameplay. As a whole, I was entertained from start to finish.

Just finished act 4. The bosses were easy though:

Spoiler:

Crying Wolf - I just waited under the tank and kept shooting with a sniper rifle at it when it was close. Took a while, but it was all too easy.
Vamp - It was a bit of a trick to find out how to do proper CQC (since I never use that), but especially with the tranquillizer-gun and well-aimed shots at his head could take him out very fast.
RAY - C'mon, all I had to do it shoot the damn thing.

Originally Posted by Grawl

Just finished act 4. The bosses were easy though:

Spoiler:

Crying Wolf - I just waited under the tank and kept shooting with a sniper rifle at it when it was close. Took a while, but it was all too easy.
Vamp - It was a bit of a trick to find out how to do proper CQC (since I never use that), but especially with the tranquillizer-gun and well-aimed shots at his head could take him out very fast.
RAY - C'mon, all I had to do it shoot the damn thing.

That's what i did for the "no alert" play through takes a bit of a time waiting but eventually you get the shots. The bosses are though ridiculously easy i sorta wished they were a bit harder, however first time through i struggled maybe. but afterwards once you know what you're doing can zip through them like nothing.

About the end of Act 4:

Spoiler:

Aww if all you did was shoot you're missing out on a few tricks. My first time playing i didn't realize i could've switched out to AT missiles and the Laser gun. They seem to have a different animation when you get in close to RAY for the Triangle attack such as jumping on him and while jumping off lasers go wild on him. There is another that ends up spreading lots of missiles on him as well. And if you're close to a building you ram RAY up against the side. Easy enough, but thats the kind of fights i've been waiting for in the Metal Gear serie, probably my favorite fight in the entire game. Very rewarding.

Now I finished the game. Can't wait to read back all the spoilers I've been avoiding. I got four medals - hyena, pig, cow and puma.